Page 1 of 2

Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:15 pm
by Blueflu
Had my 1985 10 Meter Express blocked by the marina in November in NJ. Checked on it several times over the winter, last time about 3 weeks ago. Nothing alarmed me but wasn't really looking for issues just made sure nothing obvious or there was any water in the forward bilge either. Got a call this past Saturday that the boat was damaged. Got to the marina to find that cement blocks two wide went through the hull creating a hole about 4 feet lengthwise and 2 feet wide and the keel was on the ground. The sides were bowed out several feet up from the hole as well. Inside the cabin, the top of the water tank dead center was bowed up to the cabin floor level, about 5 inches. There was concrete blocks used in the front bow and rear chines only. Pretty certain (after doing some research) the wrong type blocking was used for this area of the country (concrete). They also sunk about half way into the ground (perhaps because they were the only thing all of the weight in the front was on), no jack stands or side support used and placed in a hollow spot not under a bulkhead. The boats been owned by me since Feb 2015 and purchased by from my brother in law who owned it for 13 years. It's been on land every winter. Had a repair guy look at it and he said the hull was sound with no delamination. Marina is blaming the hull of course. Any feedback on this.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:56 pm
by prowlersfish
Any photos of the boat ? Now or when it was blocked ?

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:19 pm
by comodave
Get your insurance company to send a surveyor out asap. I would take lots of photos from every angle.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:13 am
by Blueflu
The insurance surveyor was at the boat Monday. He is the one who told me it was blocked up incorrectly. Photos and video were taken the day I was made aware and went to the marina. I also had a repair shop there to give me a price on repairing it who would mediately said the same thing. I'd rather not post any pictures or put any specific information out there because of possible legal proceedings or until the insurance makes a determination.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:27 pm
by comodave
Your insurance should cover your loss. They will then go after the yard for blocking it improperly. Then the lawyers will figure it out... good luck, hope it works out well for you.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:46 pm
by Blueflu
I was really looking to see if anyone with a 10 Meter has ever experienced or heard of a hull failure of this magnitude. Couldn't find it on this forum. I've searched the internet too with no luck. There was some keel crush incidents noted online but nothing like this. Both the surveyer and the repair person said they've never seen one this bad but neither were surprised it happened given the way it was supported. Thanks for the feedback.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:52 pm
by captainmaniac
If I am understanding from your first post correctly - that there was some blocking up front and at the chines at the back, and nothing else, it was definitely blocked wrong. It's not a case of using the 'wrong type of blocking'. The people who blocked it are incompetent and fundamentally blocked it wrong (regardless of materials).

The boat's weight should be on it's keel. On a boat that size there should be probably 3 or 4 sets of blocks under the keel from up forward, 1/3 of the way back, 2/3 of the way back, and at the transom. Blocking at the chines is not meant to be weight bearing -- it is just there to keep the boat from tipping over. Should be a pair of supports at the chines at the transom, and at least one more set more forward for safety.

If you only had 3 points of blocking, most of the weight of the boat was on non-structural surfaces. And if the blocks sunk in to the ground, it was not even a stable surface to block the boat on. Even with 'proper' blocking you could have had problems if the blocks settled, as the weight is not being evenly supported anymore.

If these guys only deal with runabouts up to 20' or so, that kind of blocking might work. Absolutely wrong for larger boats.

It's not a case of hull failure. It's a case of Marina failure.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:01 pm
by captainmaniac
Oh yeah ... and structurally.... like Paul I would like to see pictures of how the hull is bowed out etc if possible ... Depending on how far it is flexed I would find it hard to believe there is no structural damage (aside from the holes in the bottom, of course... and if someone looks at them and says 'no structural damage' fire them and find someone else!). The hull to deck 'shoebox' joint isn't made to flex - so if it did flex, you have a problem. If it didn't flex, there could be cracks compromising integrity. An International's interior components are largely molded and would be glassed to the hull sides I would think, as would structural bulkheads ... has all the bowing happened only between all the structural connections? I would be surprised if at least a few have not delaminated or broken apart.

Also the support (if just the 3 blocks) would put a huge strain on the keel, and could easily have caused it to flex and droop in the middle, causing possible issues with bonding of the stringers to the hull bottom.

Don't want to scare you... just want to say what I can to reduce the chances of people pulling the wool over your eyes.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:56 pm
by prowlersfish
Blueflu wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:46 pm
I was really looking to see if anyone with a 10 Meter has ever experienced or heard of a hull failure of this magnitude. Couldn't find it on this forum. I've searched the internet too with no luck. There was some keel crush incidents noted online but nothing like this. Both the surveyer and the repair person said they've never seen one this bad but neither were surprised it happened given the way it was supported. Thanks for the feedback.
The fact you can not find any failures points to it being a blocking issue .

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:49 am
by RWS
ALL 10 meters have a solid glass hull.

don't know if yours is a midcabin or express

the express has a molded into the hull fiberglass 40 gallon fresh water tank in the keel, forward of the engine room bulkhead.

The engine room floor has a similar molded in 40 gallon waste water tank.

These are integral to the hull

I have been messing with Internationals for 17 years and have never heard of any hull issues..... PERIOD !

Hope you can keep us posted on your situation, and best of luck in getting this resolved.

RWS

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:03 am
by BeaconMarineBob
If you need any help with this please feel free to
give us a call my partner John Leeds was one of the Trojan Engineers on the 10 meter.

Bob
Beacon Marine
609 713 4602

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:30 am
by Blueflu
Thanks for all the responses. It's an Express not a mid cabin. I am aware of the holding tank the water tank and the solid hull. No one is pulling wool over my eyes believe me. I actually have a very good relationship with the manager and the guys who blocked the boat up but I was 100% on top of this from the minute it happened. I have over 35 years of boating experience and ownership I guess the only area I was lacking in was trusting the marina that they were blocking the boat up right. Just one of those things I never really paid attention to and assumed they were doing it correctly. As far as the other boats go mine is about average sized for the marina and there are a lot of bigger boats blocked up in the same manner. I've been boat shopping from the tip of Long Island to Maryland since this happened and I've really learned a lot about how to block a boat up. As far as the claim, I just received confirmation yesterday that it's a complete constructive loss therefore I am being paid full value of the hull which is twice what I paid for it. I bought the boat to flip it but I guess the marina did that for me. It's really a shame. My garage and shed are filled with everything for the boat that will never go back in it now. I pulled the carbs off and had them rebuilt. I pulled the generator out to have it painted and tuned up. I had all the cushions reupholstered and pillows made. I guess I'm going on eBay soon.
Thanks again everybody and I probably will not be on this form much longer. Don't hate me. My wife is very interested in a Sea Ray.

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:58 am
by prowlersfish
Since its been taken care of , Can you post some photos now ?

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:04 am
by BeaconMarineBob
Sorry to hear they totaled her.

We can help you sell the parts you have for her.

https://www.trojanboats.net/zencart/ind ... cts_id=622

Feel free to give us a call.
609 713 4602

Re: Catrostrophic hull failure

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:52 am
by Blueflu
I'm trying to post some photos but it's telling me they are too big. Not really good at resizing them. If I can figure it out I definitely will.