steering question

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hammerhead
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steering question

Post by hammerhead » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:02 pm

sorry for asking so many questions on here but here is another one. boat has 2 helms with an old syten hydro steering in it. system never really handled correctly. we found a leak and got it repaired and then added new oil and tried to bleed the system, the steering now has a lock on the SB side but the port side the wheel just spins effortlessly. ending up flushing the whole system but same issue. is the syten Uniflow valve not letting the bypass open? we took it apart and everything looked and acted properly( I think). the cylinder still wont retract at all while turning wheel to port. switched hoses from 1 end of the cylinder to the other and the rod retracted that way. since i dont think its fixable i was looking at new systems but how do i know which size cylinder i need? the guy from seastar solutions said i need the HH5271-3 SeaStar Helm but didnt mention cylinders or do i just change the helm and tubing?

hammerhead
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Re: steering question

Post by hammerhead » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:05 pm

also if i just replace the lower helm now can i add the upper helm later when money allows?

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captainmaniac
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Re: steering question

Post by captainmaniac » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:22 pm

Had someone replace steering on my '79 F32 during the winter of 2016/2017.

Pumps used for upper and lower helm were Teleflex Seastar p/n HH5271-3. Ram was Teleflex Seastar p/n HC5312-3 model BA125.

We left all the old tubing in place as it still worked with new pumps and ram (I think there was some adapter fitting needed at the ram end but still way less cost and hassle than pulling all new hydraulic lines).

You could replace just the lower station now and do upper later, but I will just throw this out... hydraulic lines from the upper station are likely just T'd in to the lines between the lower station and the ram.

If you just replace pump for the lower and reuse existing lines, all should be fine unless the upper pump is compromised and has any kind of internal leak or check valve issue. In that case, steering from the lower helm may creep or get mushy because the upper helm is still part of the overall system. Doing the upper station later would involve pulling the lines at the bridge, replacing that pump, and topping up / bleeding the system.

If you put in lower station pump and new hydraulic lines directly to the ram, you will have a perfectly clean system. You will have to disconnect the lines from the upper station and drain all fluid (and hopefully not make a mess) as part of that. To add the upper station back in later you would be cutting the lines from the lower station to the ram, hopefully not making a mess with the hydraulic fluid that leaks out....., adding a T fitting to reconnect the lower station lines and tap in the bridge lines, then refilling and re-bleeding the system.

Either way, I think doable. Just depends on what pain you prefer for later.

Oh yea -- one other thing I almost forgot... you may need new wheels! Taper on the hub fitting on the new pumps was different than my old original Syten system. The old Sytem hub tapered down from 1" to 3/4" over about a 1" length. The taper on the new hub is 3/4" down to 11/16" over a 1 1/8" length. NOTE: I am pulling those specs off the adapter I had made for my old wheel, that I didn't need anymore.. but should be close enough for you to gauge impacts to your application. But in any event, my bridge wheel wouldn't work anymore so I had to by a new one, and the wheel at the lower station now fit the helm so I could throw away the $300 adapter I had custom milled!

hammerhead
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Re: steering question

Post by hammerhead » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:16 pm

thanks for the info. seastar told me the plastic lines wont work with the new system since the pressure changes fro 500 psi to 1000. he said i need nylon lines. if i dont need to spend $200 on new lines then i could get the top pump at this time

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prowlersfish
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Re: steering question

Post by prowlersfish » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:51 am

Are both helms doing the same thing ? When you switch lines did the rudders ( not the helm ) move the same way ? Seals inside the cylinder can cause one way issues .
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hammerhead
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Re: steering question

Post by hammerhead » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:49 am

i did switch lines on the cylinder and turning it sb it did go back but still nothing turning the wheel the other way

hammerhead
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Re: steering question

Post by hammerhead » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:24 pm

i have the cylinder off. how much pressure should it take me to push the ram in and out by hand. i can hardly budge it

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prowlersfish
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Re: steering question

Post by prowlersfish » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:32 am

You should be able move it but it would have some resistance , so it would take a little effort . That is with lines off . With Lines on You may not be able to move it .
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hammerhead
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Re: steering question

Post by hammerhead » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:04 am

Yeah with the lines off it's all I can do to push it with all my weight on it and I weigh about 210. Did get a lot of dirt or black specks out of it in the oil

hammerhead
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Re: steering question

Post by hammerhead » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:21 pm

went and bit the bullet with a whole new sea star system. not worth the worry. now i have a syten uniflow valve i can sell. :D

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prowlersfish
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Re: steering question

Post by prowlersfish » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:34 pm

hammerhead wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:04 am
Yeah with the lines off it's all I can do to push it with all my weight on it and I weigh about 210. Did get a lot of dirt or black specks out of it in the oil
Black specks ? Good chance that's your seals , I mean were your seals .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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P-Dogg
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Re: steering question

Post by P-Dogg » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:38 pm

hammerhead wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:04 am
Did get a lot of dirt or black specks out of it in the oil
I would flush my lines then, if it was me. Dont want anything but oil in the new system
I needed a less expensive hobby, so I bought a boat!

hammerhead
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Re: steering question

Post by hammerhead » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:59 pm

new helm,lines and cylinder. all fresh oil

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