1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

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gusssd87
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1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by gusssd87 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:42 am

Hi - I have decided to go with a Trojan Express the 37-40 foot 1992-1999 Model. Can anyone provide Information and or opinions on what to look for in my search.
This past weekend I looked at a 1998 37 Express. The dealer readily admitted to moisture issues in the transom 4X4 sections by the trim tabs. Upon inspection the bow & pulpit section had high moisture reading and possible delimitation occurring when I got to the stringers undertake engine mounts on both sides the meter went off the charts. Ascetically the boat was beautiful seemed well kept however I believe there to be additional issues that I am not being told about. I looked at a 1992 earlier in the summer which sold quicker than I was ready to pull the trigger on.

Guidance in regards as to what to look for would be appreciated I have been told the 1998 was the best year structurally speaking what the differences between the 1998 and earlier models? Also curious about the V drives heard there might be issues with those as well.

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prowlersfish
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by prowlersfish » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:33 pm

I don't have much info past 92 as they were Carver designed / built . Carver bought the name in 1992 . With that said I have not heard of any issues , But it sounds like that boat had a lot of them . Maybe someone with more info on the Carver built boats will chime in . You also could check on a Carver forum .
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rickalan35
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by rickalan35 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:08 am

Hi Guessed87,

Four years ago, I bought a 1994 370 after I sold the 1974 Tricabin I'd had for 16 years.

They are truly a fantastic boat. Ask me anything you'd like to know.

Cheers

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

rickalan35
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by rickalan35 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:22 pm

Hi Prowler,

I have a feeling that Guessed87 moved on from the high moisture content boat he initially acquired about.

I do have a question for you that we can start a new link for. Going out on a limb, how would you design the battery arrangement in my own 370?

I'm running a pair of 502's with an 8.5 hp generator sitting between them. The stock system seems wanky to me.

Thks

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by rickalan35 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:26 pm

By the way, I have indeed raised this subject before and Big D did give us a very good response, but it appears to be a tough thing to get the marina or a contractor to actually convert my boat's charging system to a straightforward and improved battery configuration.

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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prowlersfish
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by prowlersfish » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:59 am

rickalan35 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:22 pm
Hi Prowler,

I have a feeling that Guessed87 moved on from the high moisture content boat he initially acquired about.

I do have a question for you that we can start a new link for. Going out on a limb, how would you design the battery arrangement in my own 370?

I'm running a pair of 502's with an 8.5 hp generator sitting between them. The stock system seems wanky to me.

Thks

Rick
What is your set up now ? and how do you use the boat ? Marinas or days on the hook ?
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

rickalan35
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by rickalan35 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:00 pm

Prowler,

The set-up that came with the boat and is stock (I have the manuals) is as follows:

A Four-way Battery Switch 1 2 Both and Off

A Starting battery for each engine. Starboard engine battery is position 1 on the switch Port engine battery is position 2 on the switch

A 3rd battery - a deep cell battery is hooked into the system but kept isolated from the other two. It is not used for any shipboard house functions and is only utilized when I press the "Combine" button in the cockpit

A 4th starting battery is dedicated to the generator alone and is isolated from the other batteries and is also not hooked up to the onboard shore power battery charger

Underway, I am instructed by the manual to turn the Battery Switch to either Position 1 or Position 2 but to definitely avoid leaving it in Position Both. This is apparently because the two alternators will run against each other if the Switch is left in Both with the result being poor charging and possible damage.

On the hook, all house current draw for lighting, refrigerator, head etc comes off the starting batteries. I've owned the boat now for four years and it is a very capable and well-made unit. But imagine my surprise the first night out when I woke up in the morning to batteries that were too low to crank the engines. So I started the engines by pushing the button on the dash while simultaneously pushing the Starter Button.

And why would they have a deep cell battery involved if it has no House functions? Seems to me if it's only called on when the combining button on the dash is pressed that I would be better served with a Starting battery.

So, it seems to me that the deep cell should be handling all the House power needs. I would have thought that in a perfect world, I could add a second deep cell and the two of them together would get me through a week-end. The two starting batteries could be combined for Start Up and left on Both.

Your thoughts?
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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P-Dogg
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by P-Dogg » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:24 pm

rickalan35 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:00 pm

Underway, I am instructed by the manual to turn the Battery Switch to either Position 1 or Position 2 but to definitely avoid leaving it in Position Both. This is apparently because the two alternators will run against each other if the Switch is left in Both with the result being poor charging and possible damage.
I never understood this "argument." How can an alternator tell whether it's pushing against a full battery, or another alternator? Voltage is voltage, and alternators don't supply current, loads draw it. I leave the battery charger on all the time, even underway while running the generator, which means that my batteries are supplied, if they draw current, by the smart charger AND the alternator. Not surprisingly, I have never had any issues......

During bulk mode, both alternators will work hard to charge if connected together via the battery switch, then during absorption, one will get lazy (only NASA could afford to get the exactly-matched voltage sensing correct) and the other will do most of the work. For our purposes, BFD.
rickalan35 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:00 pm
So, it seems to me that the deep cell should be handling all the House power needs. I would have thought that in a perfect world, I could add a second deep cell and the two of them together would get me through a week-end.
It would seem to me to be that way too. I think that you would be better served if you measured, or at least calculated, your electrical demands while on the hook. You might be surprised at the battery capacity required. Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual has tons of info on how to size batteries to ensure available capacity and ensure long life.

Note that my battery charger is also connected to my generator battery. The ProMariner smart charger keeps the generator topped-off too.

And another thing. While I haven't (yet) added enough batteries to supply it with juice (for long), I did install an inverter, and you may want to consider doing that too. My thinking for the short term is that, once the starting charge is replaced by the alternator, it basically sits at idle. With the inverter, I can run my (120 volt only) fridge while underway, without having to run my generator. Keeps the beer colder for longer once you are on the hook. That, combined with the fact that I can make a cup of coffee at O'dark thirty without having to wake my wife, any guests, or anyone in the anchorage by starting my generator, was enough for me to add one even if I can't (yet) power much with it while at anchor.
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by prowlersfish » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:03 am

P-Dogg wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:24 pm
rickalan35 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:00 pm

Underway, I am instructed by the manual to turn the Battery Switch to either Position 1 or Position 2 but to definitely avoid leaving it in Position Both. This is apparently because the two alternators will run against each other if the Switch is left in Both with the result being poor charging and possible damage.
I never understood this "argument." How can an alternator tell whether it's pushing against a full battery, or another alternator? Voltage is voltage, and alternators don't supply current, loads draw it. I leave the battery charger on all the time, even underway while running the generator, which means that my batteries are supplied, if they draw current, by the smart charger AND the alternator. Not surprisingly, I have never had any issues......

During bulk mode, both alternators will work hard to charge if connected together via the battery switch, then during absorption, one will get lazy (only NASA could afford to get the exactly-matched voltage sensing correct) and the other will do most of the work. For our purposes, BFD.
rickalan35 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:00 pm
So, it seems to me that the deep cell should be handling all the House power needs. I would have thought that in a perfect world, I could add a second deep cell and the two of them together would get me through a week-end.
It would seem to me to be that way too. I think that you would be better served if you measured, or at least calculated, your electrical demands while on the hook. You might be surprised at the battery capacity required. Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual has tons of info on how to size batteries to ensure available capacity and ensure long life.

Note that my battery charger is also connected to my generator battery. The ProMariner smart charger keeps the generator topped-off too.

And another thing. While I haven't (yet) added enough batteries to supply it with juice (for long), I did install an inverter, and you may want to consider doing that too. My thinking for the short term is that, once the starting charge is replaced by the alternator, it basically sits at idle. With the inverter, I can run my (120 volt only) fridge while underway, without having to run my generator. Keeps the beer colder for longer once you are on the hook. That, combined with the fact that I can make a cup of coffee at O'dark thirty without having to wake my wife, any guests, or anyone in the anchorage by starting my generator, was enough for me to add one even if I can't (yet) power much with it while at anchor.
When , your charging one bank (when the switch is on both it becomes one bank ) from multiple sources like 2 engines or engine and a charger , chances are only one is charging the others will cut back . ( same goes for 3 charging sources ) . My boat is a great example . Being diesels my tachs work off the alternator . If the charger is on the tach quits as the alternator cuts off/back . turn off the charger it starts working .

Remember , they are controlled by voltage not current . I will get into this more shortly .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

rickalan35
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by rickalan35 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:15 am

Okay. Thanks guys. This is an area that's difficult to understand for most boaters. The guys at my marina all have different versions of this technology and are generally convinced they know what they're talking about. The versions are all different and the conversations can become heated and end up a gong show. Meanwhile few of them can remain on the hook for the weekend no matter what their set-up is like.

This season (my boat's now tucked away for winter because I'm travelling) I once slapped on the generator for half an hour before starting engines and still didn't have enough juice. Had to combine all the batteries once again. Question that comes to mind here is, "Is there a Battery Switch setting that I should set, in order in order to run the generator and charge all batteries?? In my former tricabin, I would run the generator and it would automatically charge all the banks.
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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prowlersfish
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by prowlersfish » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:48 am

Alternators are controlled by voltage on our boats ( no longer the case on newer autos ) as load increases voltage with drop so the Voltage regulator looks to increases the output to raise voltage . When using more source its like only one will charge and the other(s) will cut back . Will it hurt any thing ? IMO It not hurt a thing . This is happening on P-Dogg's boat and he has no issues . The only issue I have is losing the Tach at lower rpm . However I do think its best to have each engine charge its own bank and keep them isolated so if you have a issue on one you will know it ,rather then it being hidden by the other good bank . I have 3 batteries when I bought my boat only one was good and it was powering everything .

On your boat and use this is what I would do . I would move as many house loads as you can to your House Battery bank . The frig is a must . Have the house bank on a/the charger . Get a battery isolator or a ACR so one engine can also charge the house bank . Make sure the house bank has the capacity needed .

ACR example ( may be to small for you ) https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea ... ecordNum=5

isolator example https://www.westmarine.com/buy/promarin ... ecordNum=7
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

rickalan35
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Re: 1992-1999 Trojan Express 37-40

Post by rickalan35 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:56 am

Thank you for the feedback Prowlerfish and P Dogg.

Prowler said: I would move as many house loads as you can to your House Battery bank . The frig is a must.

Rick said: I agree totally. My marina is balking at the wiring challenge of these changes. I have not been able to entice a knowledgeable tech to come aboard and do this work for me. I would move most of my house loads to the deep cell plus parallel in an identical deep cell to back it up.

Prowler said: I do think its best to have each engine charge its own bank and keep them isolated.

Rick said: How do I keep the batteries isolated during running with essentially each engine charging only their own starting batteries?
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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