83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

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prowlersfish
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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by prowlersfish » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:48 am

It can be a great boat . One note don't be so negative on a survey . Mandatory No but Its really not bad advice and maybe needed for insurance ( check with your company) . Sometimes they can find stuff the best of us can miss . But its not cheap and its your money and your choice .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:02 pm

prowlersfish wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:48 am
It can be a great boat . One note don't be so negative on a survey . Mandatory No but Its really not bad advice and maybe needed for insurance ( check with your company) . Sometimes they can find stuff the best of us can miss . But its not cheap and its your money and your choice .
I get that , but im my case it would cost about a third of what im paying for the boat. It don't seem worth it .

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:17 pm

prowlersfish wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:12 am
Its good you looked at some costs . You sound like your very hands on and that's a must on a older boat or a large check book :D .

Your brought out the stringers . Something that should be looked at in any boat of that age .

Remember no one knows what you can and cannot do . I love the question "Is something I can do myself" without have a clue if they can use a screw driver or not . With that said you sound like you have the skill set . just be open minded to advice . And read between the lines .


Reading your first post one would not have a clue as to you having a lot experience or a 20 something dreamer . I was once that 20 year old and now well I am a bit older and hopefully wiser ,but some days I have to wonder .

Thank you for the input , but if you know a 20 something dreamer that can jump in a boat he dont know and identify the issues i laid out in my first post upon a first and brief inspection of an unfamilar boat , by all means send him my way . Ive been looking for a technician apprentice with that kind of eye and instinct for years. lol

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by rickalan35 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:41 pm

Swampman,

I would be surprised if the hull had serious issues. There may be "thru-hull" leakage that you will have to deal with for as you already know, there are several underwater holes drilled in her for the engine intakes, generator intake, wash down pump if installed, depthfinder sender plus the openings for the rudders and prop shafts. You are probably more skilled in the engine dept than most of us and so I'll leave that alone. But the solid hull below the rub rail is thick and robust. The corner posts and sills of these tricabins were coated in thick layers of fiberglass and resin which rendered the hulls stronger due to the fiberglass rather than because of the original framing. But anything is possible so in my opinion, have a real good serious look at the hull searching for evidence of cracks or the boat having been dropped off the cradle etc. One other thing to do is check the condition of the mounting of the trim tabs (this may give you a hint as to how well the previous owner cared about maintenance.)

Honest, a survey is money well spent plus you probably won't need to have him survey the engines as that is already your specialty. It doesn't matter as much what you are paying for the boat but instead (at least in my view) it will help you to know what work you will need to do. If you're going to do most of it yourself then perhaps the money isn't as big an issue for you as is the time required. A survey will help you with that. just sayin' :)

BTW, in my view today's Harleys are bulletproof aren't they. Just sold my old girl 1987 (FLHS Electroglide) last year (bought new) after owning it forever and it was a wonderful runner. '87 was the first year of the 5 speed transmission and the 3rd year of the evolution engine. Got me out to the west coast and back twice and never an issue. My buddy is a Sea Ray guy and since about 1995 I think they have become very good boats when used for the purposes intended. He keeps his in Florida and we've had some nice cruises.

But having that solid hull rather than a cored hull is great. Heavy, but great.

Best of luck
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:24 pm

Thanks for the input . My first boat was a 79 sea ray with a soft transom , cracked block and manifolds and an alpha gen 2 that had been hacked into a gen 1 gimbal ring and had 4 cylinder gears in although the boat had a 305 chevy. I knew none of this when I bought it . The outdrive wouldn't even go down all the way due to the different trim ram mounting. It took 4 years but I gutted it , repaired it , bought the tools and regeared the outdrive to the 1.47 gears it should have with the v8 , built a nice 350 for it and made a good boat out of it . When I was done I trusted it because I had touched almost every single piece and it never gave me a problem . Bought it for 2k , sold it for 7k . A 36 footer is a logistics nightmare for me only because I can't get it home in my driveway . So that's where I need to take the thought and research about if I can find the time and money . I know I can do it and I love the layout and the dated feel of the boat. Its a matter of making the best educated decision I can . I looked at it in the water last season and in heated storage this weekend , I crawled around it with a flashlight and hammer / screwdriver best I could and I know it needs an overwhelming amount of work .But it'll be back in its slip soon , I can clean and repair the interior issues while camping every weekend on it . it may not leave the berth idc . I still have a nice weekender that will get me on the water . I figure about August ill tear up the salon floor and start dismantling the port engine , I noticed its cw rotation while the starboard is ccw so the cracked one is nothing special . A stock 350 with marine grade gaskets and brass freeze plugs I can probably build for $600. The marina hasn't got back to me with the price to crane it in and out yet so that's yet to be figured . Full coverage insurance isn't needed Im getting it for so cheap , of course ill need liability for recovery if something catastrophic happens so im hoping the insurance company does not demand a survey , that's probably a deal breaker . Im the type who will buy the tools to do anything I can myself . I've been researching prop shaft alignments , cutlass bearing replacement , shaft seals etc to educate myself and prepare for the investment .
If anyone has any input on repairing the soft forward deck as far as tackling it from the topside or inside the v- berth I would love and appreciate the comments on that . Im aware of west systems epoxies and the possibility of just drying it out and filling it with sea cast or similar , but I would prefer to cut it open and replace the wood for a more thorough repair although im not set on it 100%.

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by rickalan35 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:34 pm

Hi Swampman,

I have very strong opinions about the leak in your aft cabin. The majority of these boats had it.

I can't see the aft end of your boat but I can tell from the photo you included that it was not an early model but rather was produced later. Do you have a rear sole or is your boat one of the tricabins with an extended rear berth? Do you have a centre queen berth or two single bunks?

If it has a sole then the manner in which Trojan designed the rear deck was faulty. I saw the same leak in different tricabins time and time again.

If you remove the thin sidewalls in the sole itself you will be able to see how the water piles up and runs back onto your feet in the aft bedroom. It'll actually find a way to leak from under the large teak beam that runs across the rear of cabin. From inside it actually looks as though it is leaking down from the windows. But your problem will probably not be originating the windows.

With those port masonie panels removed, you will have to seal off the starboard and port sides of the sole (the space in there is 14 inches wide from thin masonite panels to the actual freeboard) from any water egress possibilities as water from rain collects.

I had a very capable carpenter do this work and it involved marine plywood and fiberglass. It was well made solved the leaks. Had the boat for almost a decade and tried all manner of other fixes to solve this leak before we sealed the sides of the sole.

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by P-Dogg » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:06 am

prowlersfish wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:37 am
I don't agree your going to spend a grand a month .
Not all months are created equal, of course. One month I spent 22 grand.

I'll bet none of us brag to our wives about how cheap or trouble-free it is to own a boat.
I needed a less expensive hobby, so I bought a boat!

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by prowlersfish » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:22 pm

P-Dogg wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:06 am
prowlersfish wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:37 am
I don't agree your going to spend a grand a month .
Not all months are created equal, of course. One month I spent 22 grand.

I'll bet none of us brag to our wives about how cheap or trouble-free it is to own a boat.

And I have had a 20k , 10k 5k and 2k month my 4 highest in 14 years . not including upgrades on Toys (radar and stuf) but most below 250 . Not including fuel .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by rickalan35 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:38 pm

This topic probably needs it's own chain because we are only going to succeed in driving Swampman nuts with all our brave talk about how much money we spent in any particular month................. errrrrrrr but that being said - we can't help it right?

So Swampman, don't read on any further

My worst month was in 2002 when I replaced the gas tanks in my 1974 tricabin due to pin hole leaks everywhere. Aughhhhhhhh. They had to remove the entire floor, literally everything including the teak walls. Ugly job. I was so glad when it was finally all finished up and boat was back together again.
Needed a capable ships carpenter and fortunately the marina had one. All new screws and teak cap-plugs made the teak walls look as good as ever, but could also have been a sad day if the workmanship had been poor.


Second worst month was in 2009 when I installed air conditioning/heat in the same tricabin. Purchased two units from Flagship Marine Air Conditioning in Florida and shipped them up to Canada. I had saved up for this job and was very pleased with the result. One unit for the rear bedroom and the other for the salon. I think we all have heard how the rear bedroom remains hot in tricabins for hours after running (I can vouch for the truth in that)
- due to the V-drives being right located right underneath the bunks. Well, the air conditioners did the job and cooled the area well.

Enough said.

My current boat over the past five years that I've owned it has seen me replace the canvas enclosure. New batteries.

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by prowlersfish » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:16 pm

Not a cheap hobby But you can keep the costs in reason , My most costly month was due to blowing up my starboard diesel . A lot more costly then a gas engine replacement , the next most pricey was the day I lost a rudder 10k out of pocket but the insurance paid 6+ months later .


But this is out of the norm stuff . if I spread it out over the years its not bad .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by WayWeGo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:33 am

Swampman, first of all, welcome! I have found this group to be very helpful and knowledgeable.

Trojan boats were not on my radar screen when I found ours, and part of my decision to buy it rested on this forum and all the great info that is available here with a search. I would not have bought a 40-year old boat without such a resource because I do all my own work and having that knowledge saves time and money.

I have also made some great friends here. One friend has sold me quite a few parts for the boat and I have also bought two cars from him. Another helped my daughter get her first work experience in her chosen field. Others have taken many phone calls when I have been confused and needed to bounce questions off somebody else who also works on their own boat. And probably most of all, Bob Cushman, who owns this site and Beacon Marine Supply, has been extremely gracious with his time and knowledge. I always try to buy parts from him because he has taken such good care of me.

There have been a number of tri cabin repairs that were documented on the forum that you might want to search for, including deck repairs. You asked about whether to repair a deck from the top or bottom. That is a question that folks have a variety of opinions about, but for me, it comes down to letting gravity help you. In other words, I would only work from underneath if I could 100% justify it. I have some core replacement in my future both on my foredeck and on my flybridge. I will definitely be doing it from the top and hopefully will be able to salvage most of the fiberglass by taking it out in strips and only having to repair the cuts rather than laying new glass on top of the new coring.

Where are you located? There are quite a few of us on the Chesapeake Bay and its rivers. We keep WayWeGo just south of Annapolis on the Bay and used to boat most of the Potomac with our previous boat. From the photo you posted, it looks like the boat is registered in Michigan.

So far, we have not had any very expensive months, other than a few that we made optional upgrades. We stay in a low cost marina and I only have to buy parts as I do all the work myself.
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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by RWS » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:59 am

The biggest cost factor on a new boat isn't fuel, it's DEPRECIATION !

Our boats don't come with that expense.

There are only two ways to own an older boat:

1) be prepared to spend a great deal of money for someone to do repairs & maintenance

2) own the skillset, have the time and determination to see it through.

You have #2

#2 combined with a MARINE SURVEY you will have a reasonably good idea of what lies ahead

Won't eliminate the unknown, but will reduce it

wouldn't it be sad if you found out 2 years later that the ENGINES were falling out of alignment because the stringers were rotted ???

After all that hard work, time and money was spent?


RWS
Last edited by RWS on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by mikeandanne » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:34 am

RWS wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:59 am
The biggest cost factor on a new boat isn't fuel, it's DEPRECIATION !

Our boats don't come with that expense.

There are only two ways to own an older boat:

1) be prepared to spend a great deal of money for someone to do repairs & maintenance

2) own the skillset, have the time and determination to see it through.

You have #2

#2 combined with a MARINE SURVEY you will have a reasonably good idea of what lies ahead

Won't eliminate the unknown, but will reduce it

wouldn't it be sad if you found out 2 years later that the were falling out of alignment because the stringers were rotted ???

After all that hard work, time and money was spent?


RWS
I agree totally. I don't own my F32 anymore but this kinda pushed a button.

A number of years ago we had decided on a boat after the wife and I crawled all over it for hours and hours with moisture meter and my mechanical experience in hand, arranged the transport and got the surveyor to check it anyway. Well he stopped the survey and called me, as the rudder supports and stringers were in his words "soaked and if you drill into them water would squirt out". Best money I ever spent, probably saved me over 20K.

That is what comes to mind for me when I see people tearing boats apart without really knowing whether the structure is sound.The yards are full of " geez I wish someone had told me this was harder than it looked ".

You guys here have given thoughtful and experienced advice to any numbers of people that have bought Trojans to fix up and recover and deserve better than being compared to goats.

Mike
78 F 32

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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by prowlersfish » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:14 pm

Good post . So you sold your F32? did you get a new boat ?
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
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Re: 83 36 foot tri cabin questions.

Post by swampman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:57 pm

rickalan35 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:34 pm
Hi Swampman,

"I have very strong opinions about the leak in your aft cabin. The majority of these boats had it.

" I can't see the aft end of your boat but I can tell from the photo you included that it was not an early model but rather was produced later. Do you have a rear sole or is your boat one of the tricabins with an extended rear berth? Do you have a centre queen berth or two single bunks?

center queen bed , I believe this would be an extended rear berth but still getting to know these boats.

" If it has a sole then the manner in which Trojan designed the rear deck was faulty. I saw the same leak in different tricabins time and time again.

"If you remove the thin sidewalls in the sole itself you will be able to see how the water piles up and runs back onto your feet in the aft bedroom. It'll actually find a way to leak from under the large teak beam that runs across the rear of cabin. From inside it actually looks as though it is leaking down from the windows. But your problem will probably not be originating the windows..


The current owner claims he has fixed the leak ,some of the starboard wall trim and headliner is down or hanging . the water damage is on the wood trim directly under the rear of the aft cabin side window . I pulled the bed boards up and could see the rudder , steering hydraulics and trim hose pass throughs seemed to be all fiberglass at the transom with no apparent wood structure.

"With those port masonie panels removed, you will have to seal off the starboard and port sides of the sole (the space in there is 14 inches wide from thin masonite panels to the actual freeboard) from any water egress possibilities as water from rain collects.

I believe I have the raised rear sole ? there is no rear cockpit area so I believe you are referring to the earlier design , correct ?

" I had a very capable carpenter do this work and it involved marine plywood and fiberglass. It was well made solved the leaks. Had the boat for almost a decade and tried all manner of other fixes to solve this leak before we sealed the sides of the sole.

Rick

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