My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

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Saltlife68
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by Saltlife68 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:42 am

prowlersfish wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:35 am
Glad you found the issue . Nothing wrong with staying with Promariner . Of course there are other good choices out there like Mastervolt and others .


What area are you boating in ?
Hi Prowlersfish - Yes, I'm glad to have solved the issue too. I ended up ordering a Minn Kota and hope to get it installed in the next day or two. In the process of digging though, I did go ahead and install that new bilge pump which with a strong battery works like a charm! And we tested the old one and of course it's still just fine. So, going to swap it out for the one in the aft bilge which is gummed up with oil and grime over the years; did buy a new float for that area. So, all should be good now with all new batteries, new charger, new starters and new or cleaned up bilge pumps!

I'm in northeast Oklahoma by the way...which has been quite a challenge with record high lake levels and flooding. I darn near had to buy myself a dinghy too! Where are you?

Thanks so much Prowlerfish, happy boating!
"Paint a wall, learn to dance, Call your mom, buy a boat
Drink a beer, sing a song, Make a friend, can't we all get along"

Saltlife68
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by Saltlife68 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:53 am

Hi Rick,

Thanks for writing back and checking into everything for me. Yes, I was referring to the heater that is located under the captain's seat (accessed via the dry storage under the companion seat). Just happened across that one day when I was checking it all out. Good to know it's simply for the ice maker - still haven't commissioned that although it does work - just not convinced it's worth the potential water risk or really a need.

Curious about the rudder guide (didn't know there was such a thing) and the advice on the trim tabs. I back in as well and thus far haven't had too much of an issue but any help I can get will be well worth it! My slip is fairly well protected from current and wind back in a cove so that definitely helps...especially for somebody who's never done this before!

I have a few really specific questions that you might be able / willing to help me with so I may message you. I am so appreciative of you taking the time and interest in chatting and sharing information and expertise!

Happy boating and good luck with the battery puzzle....it's so easy and so complicated at the same time! I have decided after talking to the mechanic that the new charger will be wired directly to the batteries. No real need to go through the selector switch. I think that will simplify some.
"Paint a wall, learn to dance, Call your mom, buy a boat
Drink a beer, sing a song, Make a friend, can't we all get along"

rickalan35
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by rickalan35 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:31 pm

Hi Saltlife - you may need to private message me with some sort of email address, because the Forum software seems to have a problem with my replies to private messages and leaves them languishing in something called the OutBox. I still have replies sitting in there from last summer.

Thks

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by P-Dogg » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:43 pm

Messages stay in the outbox until the recipient opens them.
I needed a less expensive hobby, so I bought a boat!

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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by prowlersfish » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:13 pm

P-Dogg wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:43 pm
Messages stay in the outbox until the recipient opens them.
This ^^^^^ Assuming sent box is not full .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
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Saltlife68
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by Saltlife68 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:58 pm

rickalan35 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:31 pm
Hi Saltlife - you may need to private message me with some sort of email address, because the Forum software seems to have a problem with my replies to private messages and leaves them languishing in something called the OutBox. I still have replies sitting in there from last summer.

Thks

Rick
Hi Rick - I got your message, thanks!
"Paint a wall, learn to dance, Call your mom, buy a boat
Drink a beer, sing a song, Make a friend, can't we all get along"

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todd brinkerhoff
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by todd brinkerhoff » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:59 pm

The Carver made Trojan 370/390/400 were derived from the Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express. This was a completely newly designed International series, and was the first International boat to abandon the Harry Schoell designed hull. The boats topside design was created by Italian naval architect Fulvio De Simoni of Pershing Yachts, and the hull portion was designed by an engineer from Bertram. This was the shortest lived boat in Trojan History, as it was only produced for about 6 months between before Trojan closed its doors. This design was the only one carried over by Carver. Carver made several changes to accommodate production and cost savings, as Trojan was never good at figuring out. The overall design and look of the Carver Trojan is very similiar to the 10.8 Express, but the hull design was changed, for an unknown reason.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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BobCT
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by BobCT » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:57 am

A friend of mine has one of these and discovered a serious flaw which you guys should probably check. Both sides of his hull have extensive water intrusion in the coring. On the port side, the head vent appears to be the primary source. With the vent removed, we saw bare (soaked) balsa core which was never sealed from the factory. In his case, he has a huge areas of saturated core and obviously no easy fix. If it were me, I would approach it in sections from inside the cabin. I'm sure there is a similar smoking gun on the Stb side but don't recall what that was.

This was a few years ago when I metered his hull.


Bob
1988 10m mid cabin

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Trojan 370/390/410 hulls

Post by rickalan35 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:58 pm

Hi Everyone, I guess August is ticking away - say it's not so. Hope all is well.

Bob, I own a 1994 370. The coring issue your friend is experiencing is rather surprising to me.

Before I signed the cheque, I hired two unrelated surveys on the boat which included drilling holes in my hull to check and make sure the hull was not cored from the rub rail down. After 16 years with a tricabin, I had wanted another solid hull if I could find one. The Surveyors filled their test holes using the West System. Their results indicated a solid fiberglass hull. The Carver Manual also states that the boat is solid from the rub rail down and cored above. The swim platform is also cored.

I am now wondering if the later models (the 390's) were cored. If so it marked a change indeed on what was essentially an unchanged hull shape.

Something to think about I guess.

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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BobCT
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by BobCT » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:10 pm

Interesting, this was a 370 and right around that vintage ('94/'95). I saw the coring with my own eyes and it was where an exhaust vent was installed in/around the head if I recall. Ok, so maybe a non issue which is good. Thanks for clarifying....

Bob
1988 10m mid cabin

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todd brinkerhoff
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by todd brinkerhoff » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:50 pm

Yes, those are above the rub rail on the starboard side. Now I’m going to have to check mine. There’s two vents, one for the galley and one for the head. Mine have clamshell covers.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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http://s1086.photobucket.com/home/Todd_ ... hoff/index

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todd brinkerhoff
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by todd brinkerhoff » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:09 pm

I checked the areas Bob mentioned today. If I could figure out photos I’d post them. You can access the fan motor area behind the cabinets in both the head and kitchen. I found that the entire area around the vent areas is solid fiberglass in that area. I have experienced coring in the radar arch, and marine grade plywood coring in the transom. I know there’s some coring around hinge areas. Other than that, I have found solid glass above the rub rail. Wish I had someone to talk to that helped engineer this boat. It’s an orphan of the orphans.

An interesting observation is that the 10.8 Express is significantly smaller in about every way but length to the 11 meter. The 11 meter towers over it. Even the 10 meter has more girth. But the 10.8 Express weighs significant more than both.
Last edited by todd brinkerhoff on Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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http://s1086.photobucket.com/home/Todd_ ... hoff/index

rickalan35
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by rickalan35 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:55 pm

Hi Todd,

Todd, I have a question you may be able to help with.

I think that Bob wasn't referring to the 10.8 hull as having that coring problem but rather he was talking about the Carver-built "Trojan 370" hull.

I was under the impression that the Carver-built 370 hull was totally re-designed and manufactured by Carver as a "new product" (different hull design) rather than it being a copy of the authentic Trojan built 10.8 hull.

So were you checking the same area on your boat for a coring issue just out of interest?? .... or because you believe that maybe both hulls are the same?

Prior to finding and buying my current 370, I had missed a deal on a 10.8 Trojan was located in Toronto and being sold by a widow who didn't know there was a lien registered against the boat. As a result of the lien, my deal went down the tubes. I will add here though, that I have been very happy with my 370.

Thanks,

Rick
Trojan 1994 370 Express, 502 Bluewaters

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todd brinkerhoff
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by todd brinkerhoff » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:51 pm

Hey Rick,

I know Carver used the molds from the new 10.8 Express. This new design was in its infancy with Trojan. Who knows where it would have led. Trojan put a lot of money and engineering into this new boat and I think wanted to compete with some big names in the Mediterranean. The one boat that this new design was being compared to was sunseeker. That was a very high end boat st the time. I’m not sure what changes carver made to the production with the new line. They look very similar. I like what Carver did with the helm. It’s much more functional. The only reason I know the hull was modified was due to the fact that. 370 was dry docked next to me. They looked very similar, but after more careful examination, I noticed that the Carver had more flat areas and the keel was removed. Again, not sure why. I think carver also had a slightly more deadrise in the rear.

I was really interested in doing the research and gained a lot of info on this boat and the subsequent carver model, but I had some conflicting data, which I was trying to straighten out, and then I was met with some resistance of info and came to a dead end . One particular thing that was frustrating me is nailing down the hull designer. We know it was someone contracted from Bertram, but one guy said it was absolutely Lee Dana, the head engineer at Bertram, and another source said, No way, it was lead hull designer Dave Napier. Of course, I have an email exchange with Lee Dana who said he didn’t design any hull for Trojan, it was probably Dave Napier. Of course pretty much every hull Napier designed was a 17 degree deadrise, 13’3” wide, with a slight keel and sharp entry, which matches the 10.8. So who knows....
I was just looking for any correspondence or documentation, but kind of ran into a wall. Maybe at some point we can find it.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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BobCT
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Re: My First Boat - 1997 Trojan 390 Express - Caught between 2 worlds

Post by BobCT » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:02 am

To clarify, I was referring to the Carver model 370 where I encountered the wet coring.
1988 10m mid cabin

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