water flow

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Footeloose
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water flow

Post by Footeloose » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:18 pm

Hello everyone, it's been awhile, since i've been working hard on the boat. She is a 1972 F36, which i bought last fall, just in time to store for the winter. The boat had been on the hard 3 yrs. before i got it. Before I bought it, I was permitted to fire the engines up, which I did, but didn't run any length of time, which incidentally are the 440's. I put new impellers in both seawater pumps before launch, which are raw water cooled, freshwater, Lake Ontario all it's life. Both engines start & run, but not great. I did a compression test on the rougher one, the port, & 1 cylinder had no compression. I pulled the heads, took them to a Mopar guy who did the valve job, & now back running better, or good I should say. However I cant't get it to stay cool, what I would like is for someone to describe for me in detail the use of the embossed letters on the side of the double pocket Sherwood water pump. I assume when the letters rot with the arrow pointing one way or the other, they mean the direction the pulley, or also rotation of the engine. Then I think it refers to in, thinking intake from the seawater. I'm wondering if the hoses are in the wrong positions, as I put them back as I removed them, but don't know what the previous owner had done . Any detailed clarification anyone can provide, I sure would appreciate. Also, has anyone ever experienced delaminating of the hoses on the inside, which might block cooling water. I also back flushed through the hoses with a garden hose to be sure the water flowed, which it seemed to, & haven't noticed any impeller residue coming out of any of the oil coolers. I tested that monster of a thermostat, & it seemed to operate. I've tried running with & without the thermostat, but it still heats after running at the dock a while. The water intake also flows freely. I know this got long, but I can't tear my hair out cuz i'm already BALD!!! Thanks for any light you can shed on this situation.

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Re: water flow

Post by Moderator » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:56 pm

I moved your post hopefully it should be seen better and changed the subject
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prowlersfish
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Re: water flow

Post by prowlersfish » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:10 pm

Are you getting water out of the exhaust ? are far as the hoses go make sure the intake hose are not the soft kind should be stiff
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Footeloose
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Re: water flow

Post by Footeloose » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:24 pm

Thnx for your reply, yes I think they're acceptable, but will check that tomorrow. Goodnite.

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Re: water flow

Post by Footeloose » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:25 pm

Yes, there's water coming out exhausts, but not abundant.

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Re: water flow

Post by captainmaniac » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 am

Not clear if you are talking about raw water pump or circulation pump... Raw water pumps can run in either direction - just make sure the impellers are installed with vanes ‘squashed’ in the right direction for the expected rotation. Can try to give you a picture/diagram of expected flow setup / hose connections but if you have a manual for the boat I think it should tell you.

Also not clear - when you say you can’t get it to stay cool ...what do you mean? What temperature is it running at? You say intake ‘flows freely’, but exhaust output is ‘not abundant’... unless you have a leak, exhaust output = intake flow... so if it doesn’t look like a lot of water in the exhaust, you aren’t getting a lot of water on intake...

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Re: water flow

Post by The Dog House » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:13 am

For a RH engine, looking at the water pump from the front (pulley) side, the hose inlets and outlets should be vertical on the left side of the pump. The inlets are on the bottom of the pump and the outlets are on the top of the pump.
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Re: water flow

Post by prowlersfish » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:34 am

Is the water pump 2 or 4 hose ?
captainmaniac wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 am
Raw water pumps can run in either direction - just make sure the impellers are installed with vanes ‘squashed’ in the right direction for the expected rotation.
To be clear Yes the pumps will run it either direction but flow will be reversed . As far as the Vane direction , no worries as the will "right themselves as soon as the engine turns over . With that said that is changing the and installing them ,not changing them and letting them sit for a year before turning over .
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2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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Re: water flow

Post by prowlersfish » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:58 am

This should help with the hoses . I posted both types of systems
Attachments
m440 raw water.png
Raw water cooling
m440 raw water.png (801.61 KiB) Viewed 1141 times
m440 fresh.png
Close/fresh water
m440 fresh.png (783.8 KiB) Viewed 1141 times
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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Re: water flow

Post by fpawn » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:05 pm

Did you check your raw water transmission cooler.. Could be blocked with debris from intake

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Re: water flow

Post by Footeloose » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:55 pm

Thanks Prowlerfish & Capt. Maniac, thanks so much for the pump diagrams, I didnt see your message soon enough to tell you I do have the original manuals, so thanks for taking the time & interest for that. To answer the other suggestion, I have checked the oil coolers, which are clear, I can blow through them. Today I hooked up a manual temp. gauge, & the temp ran right uo to about boiling, fast idle at the dock! I am starting to think I may have clogs in the exhaust somewhere, manifolds or the risers and elbows. Water is coming in at a good rate, but seems not able to get out, so it overheats. Make any sense to anyone? Also, tomorrow I may take the time to disconnect all the hoses, & purge them with the water hose. Regarding the comment of leaving new impellers in for a period in the wrong position, it was only a week this spring they sat before launch, & I always coat them with Dawn dish soap to lube them before startup. Thanks guys for the input, with enough time & a bit of money, I'm confident I'll get to the solution.

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Re: water flow

Post by RWS » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:09 am

prowlersfish wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:34 am
Is the water pump 2 or 4 hose ?
captainmaniac wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 am
Raw water pumps can run in either direction - just make sure the impellers are installed with vanes ‘squashed’ in the right direction for the expected rotation.
To be clear Yes the pumps will run it either direction but flow will be reversed . As far as the Vane direction , no worries as the will "right themselves as soon as the engine turns over . With that said that is changing the and installing them ,not changing them and letting them sit for a year before turning over .
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+1

I would suspect you will find the heat exchanger is full of debris, including bits and pieces of old impellers.

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Re: water flow

Post by Footeloose » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:19 am

Thanks RW, my boat is raw water cooled, so no heat exchanger, but there are 2 oil coolers, 1 for engine oil, 1 for trans oil. I have not found any debris from them, . With everything I've checked so far, I'm really suspecting clogged manifolds and or elbows which is surprising. Today, I'm going to crack open a manifold to see inside. Also gonna see my engine shop to see if they can "boil" them out like they do on an engine in for rebuild. Thanks for your interest.

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Re: water flow

Post by Footeloose » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:28 pm

Hi everyone, well, today was a sort of a research day. I checked with my engine shop to ask about boiling some engine pieces, they don't boil, they bake them with high heat in an oven like a kiln. Next, they are bead blasted to clean them up. Then I went to the boat & took the ends off 1 manifold, which had some rusty residue inside, but I ran a garden hose into the hose fittings, & it flowed quite well. Did the same with the elbow, with same results. With everything reassembled, I fired the engine up, & the overheating started again. Tomorrow I'm getting a gallon of Barnacle Buster at the Buffalo West Marine store which I will rig up to do a circulating flush on the engine. After seeing the u tube videos, & company reviews, I think my engines may be candidates for this treatment. Sure would be nice if it solves my problem. Thanks again for the Forum support, Footeloose

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Re: water flow

Post by CaptainSteve » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:28 pm

The barnacle buster did the trick for my heat exchanger!
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