overheating 440.

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Footeloose
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overheating 440.

Post by Footeloose » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:59 pm

Hi there folks again. Unfortunately, i haven't resolved my engine overheating problem. I've done about everything i can think of to resolve it, to little or no success. I'm just about ready to remove a couple of soft plugs from the block for a look inside. I used the 'Barnacle Buster" in it, but couldn't see that it did much, which was disappointing. I'm also wondering if anyone would know of a similar F36 with 440's in the Rochester, N.Y. to Buffalo,N.Y. area that I might be able to visit to make sure the cooling plumbing is the same as mine. Obviously, I got the boat used, so not really sure if everything is as it should be. I think I will pull the exhaust manifolds off, & have them boiled or baked out, to be sure they're as good as possible also. Naturally, any more suggestions from you Trojaniers would be appreciated. Thanks for your support. Dave

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WayWeGo
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by WayWeGo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:46 pm

Have you followed the path of the water, checking temperatures with an infrared heat gun? Sometimes that will tell you the location of your problem.

You can get a cheap one at Harbor Freight or go for a better quality one with laser spot indications of where you are taking the temperature. The more expensive ones tend to have a smaller area they are measuring the temperature at.
1975 F-36 Convertible
Twin Chrysler 440's

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prowlersfish
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by prowlersfish » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:10 pm

Post some photos . Also Did you read Big D's post on your other thread ?
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

Footeloose
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by Footeloose » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:02 am

Good morning Way we go. thanks for the reply. L do have a heat gun I've been using. For a system that seems so simple, it sure is making me crazy. I t seems the heads, manifolds, & risers stay cool. But, the hose that runs under the engine seems like it's boiling after a while of running. Today, I plan to take the engine oil & trans oil coolers out of the system by substituting a pipe in the hose lines where the coolers are, just to see if that makes a difference. Also, will check the timing, & inside the distributor to see if the advance mechanism is working freely. It's a real head scratcher. If today's work isn't helpful, I think I will pull the exhaust manifolds off for a boiling just to be sure they're flowing & clear. Thanks again for your interest, Dave.

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WayWeGo
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by WayWeGo » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:24 am

Where does that hose that is hot come from and where does it go?

If the heads, elbows and manifolds are staying cool, they are fine and probably not in need of service.

Half of your dual pocket pump is functioning as your circulation pump. The other half of the pump is pushing cool water through your oil coolers, manifolds, elbows and out the exhaust. Since the manifolds and elbows are running cool, I believe that side of the pump is working correctly and there are no issues with the manifolds, elbows and oil coolers.

If your engine is overheating, I think you will find that the circulation side of the raw water pump is where you have a problem. With the heads being cool, the most likely culprit is the thermostat or the engine itself. You have checked the thermostat, so that points to the engine. With an older, raw water cooled engine, I would suspect corrosion in the block causing poor water flow. My understanding of the cooling water flow on a Mopar big block engine is that if the block passages are clogged, the water tends to bypass them. Take this with a grain of salt as I am not an expert...
1975 F-36 Convertible
Twin Chrysler 440's

Footeloose
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by Footeloose » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:23 pm

Hi there way we go, great info, your theory makes sense, basically what i've been thinking also. Today didn't go so well though. I decided to check the wye fitting upstream of the seacock, since I never had eyes on that piece, except the outside. I removed it, & it had a fair amount of roughness inside, I guess i'd say just corrosion from being in water for so long. It wasn't corroded as in salt water erosion, tribute to being a fresh water boat. I took a half inch diameter mounted grinding wheel, shaped like a ball, reach inside & cleaned all that roughness away, & painted it, but I imagine that will wash away with use. After reassembling everything, I started the engine, but forgot to put my normal squirt of Dawn soap into the pump & I think I may have wasted the impellers, because little water came out the exhaust, with lotsa steam. Dumb rookie mistake made by an old guy!!!! I did adjust the timing, which was a bit advanced, but didn't run it long enough to really get it tweaked in. Tomorrow, I plan to remove the 2 top hoses from the pump, & fit up a garden hose to each hose which will supply city water to the engine. If it runs & stays cool, at least I know the water is circulating through the engine. Kinda wish I'd thought of that sooner, but I may be pulling the pump apart anyway. Disgustedly, I packed up & came home. Luckily, I only live about 7 minutes from the boat!! Thanks again for your input.

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Re: overheating 440.

Post by prowlersfish » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:46 pm

Are having to prime the pumps all the time ?
TROJAN F36 Conv.
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Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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WayWeGo
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by WayWeGo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:27 am

You should not have to put soap in the pump every time you use it. The only time I use soap is when I am putting the impeller back into the pump body, and then only if I am having trouble getting it in.
1975 F-36 Convertible
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prowlersfish
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by prowlersfish » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:01 pm

WayWeGo wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:27 am
You should not have to put soap in the pump every time you use it. The only time I use soap is when I am putting the impeller back into the pump body, and then only if I am having trouble getting it in.
Exactly
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

Footeloose
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by Footeloose » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:14 pm

Prowlerfish & waytogo, thanks for hanging in with me. This morning, I went back to the scene of the crime. I decided last night to use 2 garden hoses from the dockside water & connect each one to the discharge hoses from the pump, therefore, obviously, eliminating the pump. Now of course the city water is a bit cooler than Lake Ontario water, but the water circulated thru the engine fine. Before starting the water, I opened the distributor to check the centrifugal weights, & that was all fine, added a few drops of light oil. Then put the timing light on, & the timing was advanced several degrees over the 5 degree spec. After adjusting the timing, & adjusting the carb, it sits & runs smoothly, everything cool by the heat gun, & a mechanical temp gauge. I probably fan the engine close to an hour, & even cut the garden hoses down about half, without any change. I can only assume now the pump may be the culprit, & maybe the timing was adding to the heating as well. I also noticed the drive belts seem a bit worn, & one was a little loose, so possibly they were slipping a bit without squealing. I brought the pump home, so will dismantle it for a serious inspection, & new impellers. I may get the bores measured to see how much they are worn, if they are. That's it for now, but without celebrating, I'm encouraged!! Thanks again for your support, Dave

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Re: overheating 440.

Post by Footeloose » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Hey guys, I just noticed where y'all are from, my son was living in Williamsburg up until recently, now up at Gloucester Courthouse. I took another boat south in 2004, stayed at a neat marina in Hampton. Just a little background info. Have a good day.

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prowlersfish
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by prowlersfish » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:10 pm

Your pump maybe sucking air maybe from bad seals . In fact Ifeel there is a very good chance of it with all you have said . The pump cam maybe worn also reducing flow .


Do you remember what marina in Hampton ? I keep my boat in Hampton , live in the city next door .And It happens to be the same city Waywego's daughter was going to college in . It can be a very small world .
TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

Footeloose
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by Footeloose » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:48 am

Good morning Prowlerfish, this trip south was 2004, but as I recall we went in off the Bay & hung an immediate left to take us south past what I think may have been condos, seems like at the end of that stretch was the marina. I recall having dinner at the little restaurant there, on the 2nd story overlooking the marina. A gal my son worked with encouraged us to stay there. No recall of the name though. If the pump seal is the culprit, I'll hafta do some research as to how that goes. After I inspect the pump closer today, I will get new impellers, & I got a new cam with the boat, so will throw that in as well, & maybe with new v belts, proper timing, it might get me going. I ran so nice yesterday with water circulating through, idling away at 700 rpm. Fingers crossed, thanks.

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prowlersfish
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Re: overheating 440.

Post by prowlersfish » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:09 am

That sounds like the Salt ponds marina . Right across from my marina with condos ( rights side after the left turn ). It may not look the same from the air .


Hope that takes care of your issues . I do feel we are on the right track
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TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
2009 TROJAN RENDEZVOUS
Port Kinsale 2010 & 2011. Solomons get together 2011.

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Re: overheating 440.

Post by mikeandanne » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:20 pm

Sometimes when you have older hoses that have been on and off the pump many times, they will get damaged/ small splits etc where the clamps go. Have a close look and if there is room , maybe cut some off to get a newish end to clamp.It really does sound like its pulling air. I have had that and there was no visible water leak, yet the pump would pull air.
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