1972 Trojan 36' Convertible Forward Bilge

planb · Post by **planb** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:29 pm

My forward bilge has had water since inspected and the boat was purcahsed. The old owner was supposed to have fixed this but it now looks like they did a temporary fix. Surveyor indicated it was not a concern. There is about two inches of water in the bilge? Is this normal? Should the bilges always be dry? We just had some pretty extensive blister repairs done to the bottom our boat with multiple coats of an intelux vapor barrier applied. We have also installed a special dehumidifier to dry out the boat and now wondering if the bilde water issue should be resolved. If the bilge is drained it takes a few days for for the water to get back to the level it seems rto be consisentlty at.

Any feedback would be appreciated. My mechanic just said this is a real problem that can create blistering after earlier saying it was no big deal. He tightenned the thru hull and it still is leaking. Could we need a new thru hull?

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:04 am

Most boats tend to sit such that the water flows forward at dock., so you'll need to have a forward bilge pump (2 for safety!) with an automatic switch,

The keel on the F3x's also holds water, so you can install a lifting pump (Jabsco has a nice unit) with a tube to the bottom of the center keel to get all of the water, but I doubt if you'll get an automatic switch to fit down there, so this would be a manual thing to help control odors.

randyp · Post by **randyp** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:17 pm

It seems this is an issue with many Trojans. We have a 1977 F-26 that gets water in the bottom of the keel There was a small (1/4") hole in the bilge where water would spill out of. I finally got up the nerve (after reading some of the earlier posts here) and cut our a much larger hole, exposing the inside of the keel. I then ran my manual bilge pump hose into this area and can pump our the keel area dry, or near/dry. I think the water accumulated from normal stuffing box leakage on these older boats and also from small deck leaks, etc. Not much if you can pump it out occasionally. But opening up the "false floor" of the bilge gets you access to the keel, which does accumulate some water. Over time it gets to stink. I also have a feeling that some leakage is coming from the rudder stuffing box underway.

JuiceClark · Post by **JuiceClark** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:26 pm

I thought I knew everything about my F-36 ... and I guess I just figured the keel was glassed over and there was no way down in there.

If I can get down into the keel, to install a lift kit to get water outta' there, where am I most likely to find a hole to gain access? Do I have to drill a hole into it?? Don't like drilling down there! I sure don't see anything but solid, glassed over bilge bottom.

Thanks, Tony

1982 F-36

randyp · Post by **randyp** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:40 pm

Best to wait until the boat's pulled for the season. If you have a keel under the area of the bilge you're talking about most likely it's got water in it. If you can find any small holes in the floor of your bilge further aft of your foward bilge check to see if there is water under the hole(s).

DON"T BE DRILLING HOLES IN YOUR BILGE FLOOR UNLESS YOU'RE SURE OF WHAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO! I'm talking about my F26, not your F36. Just don't want you sinking at your slip!

y-not · Post by **y-not** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:13 am

I had the same questions as you last year about the water in the forward compartment etc. I very carefully measured and rechecked the locations then drilled an access to the keel. I installed abile pump made by Rule, which i modified to get into the narrow area. I'm not touting to be an expert about all the problems with boating, But I must admit the de-watering method I came up with works beautifully. It took me a lot of guts to pull the trigger on the drill and bore a hole through the false floor. If you would like me to give you some tricks on how to find the right spots to do this, I can post another message here for the benifit of others. I just didn't want to hog up this space if you have already done this.

johnny b.
Y-NOT

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:05 am

I have not yet installed a lift pump in the keel of my F32 - can anyone tell me where they got access to the keel on their F32?

Is it in the false floor in the stateroom, or in the floor in the galley?

The smell is not bad, but it gets old - esp. in this heat.

Eddie-O · Post by **Eddie-O** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:30 pm

Y-Not please post location and triicks on finding the right location I have not yet installed a pump in my F32 yet and would like the information
Thanks Eddie-O

y-not · Post by **y-not** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:20 pm

Ok First of all I have a 1979 f-32. I had the water in the forward bilge. One of the problems is that when underway (on plane) the bow rises and the water from the bow slides back(on top of the false floor) to the bulkhead which is located between the engine compartment and the stairs to the galley area. Lift the stairs out and lift out the removable floor board.
carfully measure the distance between the legnthwise stringers to determine the centerline of the floor. Near the edge of the bulkhead or where the bilge water pools the most (while underway), I drilled a hole approx. 1/2" in dia. The trick here is that ,before you drill, use the old fashioned method of tapping with a small object. The drill site should sound hollow. At this location the, height between the false floor to the bottom of the keel is about 3 to 3-1/2".
The water from the bow will now drain into the keel area. The next step is pretty much the same except that it's a little more aggressive.
IN the engine compartment, approxamatly 1 foot forward, from where the prop shafts go through the hull, is about where the keel ends. You must be forward of this location. I came forward approx. 3 feet to insure that I was over the keel area. This area is roughly about where the rear engine mounts are. Again measure the distance between the two stringers and find the centerline. Try tapping to see that it sounds hollow(it may be full of water and /or the fiberglass at that location is thicker). It can be difficult to determine by sound to verify hollowness but at that location the width of the hollow space is about 3"to3-1/2" wide and about 6" deep.
Drill a hole big enough insert a probe to poke around to determine how close you are to the area where the inside of the keel is glassed to the bilge bottom. Then you can see how much you can enlarge the hole to accomodate a small bile pump.
Rule makes a small oval shaped pump with a"smart" switch built in. it goes for about $50. What I did was remove the clip-on mount and remove the filter screen. Then I epoxied a short piece of PVC pipe to the bottm of the pick-up impeller, then glue the screen to the bottom of the pipe. The keel area is so narrow that the pump will not fit all the way to the bottom but the short pipe(about 1" long) will reach almost to the bottom.
What happens is when the water level rises enough to start the auto switch, the pump starts and then when the level is low enough to stop the pump, the "smart" switch runs the pump for an additional 15 seconds which practically gets rid of all the water in the keel. It also has the manual function if desired.
So when the boat is at rest the level in the keel should be well below the false floor. New water intrusion from anchor locker, spills, fittings etc, will collect again in the bow(trojans are bow low slightly) but as soon as you leave the dock the bow rises, the forward compartment drains through the small 1/2" weep hole into the keel which is then pumped out.
I also have a bilge pump as far astern as possible to remove any other water from the stern and the standing water in the rear of the engine compartment.
Good Luck
p.s. if there are any more questions I will be happy to answer then if I can.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:05 am

planb wrote:My forward bilge has had water since inspected and the boat was purcahsed. The old owner was supposed to have fixed this but it now looks like they did a temporary fix. Surveyor indicated it was not a concern. There is about two inches of water in the bilge? Is this normal? Should the bilges always be dry? We just had some pretty extensive blister repairs done to the bottom our boat with multiple coats of an intelux vapor barrier applied. We have also installed a special dehumidifier to dry out the boat and now wondering if the bilde water issue should be resolved. If the bilge is drained it takes a few days for for the water to get back to the level it seems rto be consisentlty at.

Any feedback would be appreciated. My mechanic just said this is a real problem that can create blistering after earlier saying it was no big deal. He tightenned the thru hull and it still is leaking. Could we need a new thru hull?

the fourm has gone off track ( water in keel is a whole other issue) the water in your forward bilge is not uncommon on this boat . your shafts should drip a litlle( unless you have dripless) and thats where the water goes to the front . now you do need to fix that thru hull thats leaking . unless its the shaft packing drip of course . rain water will end up in there also . the a/c drains in there too. what fitting is leaking ??

rossjo · Post by **rossjo** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:20 am

Y-NOT,

Thanks for the info - any reason you would';t simply put this keel pump further forward and let the forward water run into it at rest and be pumped out?

It is annoying (and smelly at times).

y-not · Post by **y-not** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:48 pm

A smaller bilge in the bow would de-water the bow but by then the keel would still be almost full, so you would need another one in the keel. I figured, the way I did it was like killing two birds with one stone.
By the way, in my f-32 all of the the piping for the toilet and holding tank are located in the bow section. Check to see if your piping has become "permeated" with the waste sitting in the lines. As these older vintage holding systems may need some up grades. By boat had a bad smell some of which was due to the stagnated keel water and has since improved. The other part was from the sanitation. I was going to replace just the piping but due to the cost of the piping(and the poor design) I'm in the process of replacing the sanitation system with a more simple and modern solution which will probably be only a little bit more $$ but I will not have to keep replacing the piping.

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Re: 1972 Trojan 36' Convertible Forward Bilge

y-not