Is it OK to replace one of my Gen.5 454 with a Gen.6 motor?
Moderators: BeaconMarineBob, Moderator, BeaconMarineDon
Is it OK to replace one of my Gen.5 454 with a Gen.6 motor?
I wiped a cam lobe on my starboard side Gen.5 454 RH motor and have a chance to upgrade to a Gen.6 motor with a roller cam/rockers. I can't afford to rebuild both of them right now, but not sure I want to stay with the flat tappet camshaft setup and have the same problem down the road. I have heard that this is very common on these motors. When the port engine goes, I'll upgrade to the Gen.6 on that side. Is it not a good idea to run two different types of motors? Looking for some advice and/or solutions if anyone can help. I guess I should add that the boat originally came with Gen.4 motors and were replaced by another owner.
Thanks,
Mike
Thanks,
Mike
- prowlersfish
- 2024 Gold Support
- Posts: 12664
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va
I am sure a some will post other wise but it won't hurt a thing .
But why not replace the can and lifters ?
As far the cam failing what oil are you using ? I would recc a 15w40 oil rate for gas/diesel these oils seem to have more zinc in them . You also may consider using a zinc additive .
But why not replace the can and lifters ?
As far the cam failing what oil are you using ? I would recc a 15w40 oil rate for gas/diesel these oils seem to have more zinc in them . You also may consider using a zinc additive .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
- alexander38
- Ultimate User
- Posts: 3179
- Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:48 am
are both carbed ? will the new one need a ecm if not carbed ? will the h.p. be the same ? these are the things I'd think of ..
Carver 3607 ACMY 454's Merc's
10' Dinghy 6hp Merc.
La Dolce Vita
Let's hit the water !
http://s852.beta.photobucket.com/user/t ... 8/library/
10' Dinghy 6hp Merc.
La Dolce Vita
Let's hit the water !
http://s852.beta.photobucket.com/user/t ... 8/library/
It just makes sense to do a complete rebuild with all of those metal shavings getting into the rod and crank bearings and everywhere else, don't you guys think? The labor is too much to go half-way and then have a rod knock next season. That's just my thought. I wish I could trailer it to my house and do the work myself but I'm at the mercy of others when it comes to the labor. I already have a new cooler and lines to eliminate any issues there as they were original, as well as the raw water pump, engine circ. pump and manifolds/risers. I'm already in deep but just thought of this as another option for the same money and might get more life in the long run. I'm no expert, but do know there are many of you out there. Many, many thanks to all of you.
Have a safe and Happy New Year!
Thanks,
Mike
Have a safe and Happy New Year!
Thanks,
Mike
1987 10 Meter Mid-Cabin
Twin Crusader FWC 454's
Twin Crusader FWC 454's
Unchained wrote:It just makes sense to do a complete rebuild with all of those metal shavings getting into the rod and crank bearings and everywhere else, don't you guys think? The labor is too much to go half-way and then have a rod knock next season. That's just my thought. I wish I could trailer it to my house and do the work myself but I'm at the mercy of others when it comes to the labor. I already have a new cooler and lines to eliminate any issues there as they were original, as well as the raw water pump, engine circ. pump and manifolds/risers. I'm already in deep but just thought of this as another option for the same money and might get more life in the long run. I'm no expert, but do know there are many of you out there. Many, many thanks to all of you.
Have a safe and Happy New Year!
Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
Hardness of the cam shift is .005 deep, after that, cam wears fast, the filter catches the cam dust particles. Myself, would be a cam replace in the boat, other then pulling the harmonic balancer, to pull the timing chain cover, and the intake to pull the lifters, no big deal. Question ? are you going to do any of the work ?
Mitch
- prowlersfish
- 2024 Gold Support
- Posts: 12664
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va
I'm not doing the work myself. I'm very good when it comes to replacing external parts but internal engine work I have never done. I've replaced rear ends, transmissions and such on cars, but I'm pretty much stuck with having my marina do the labor seeing that the cost to trailer the boat anywhere is very expensive. I was actually thinking of doing the cam replacement in the boat myself, but there is maybe one foot in front of the engine to the wall. This is a mid-cabin model and the engine is already pulled and sitting in their shop. I met someone who had this Gen.6 I'm talking about rebuilt a few months ago and fell on hard times and will probably sell it to me for $2,500. I'm not sure if I can pass it up but don't want to throw money away if it's going to lead to more problems. You're prices are very good by the way. Thanks
Mike,Unchained wrote:I'm not doing the work myself. I'm very good when it comes to replacing external parts but internal engine work I have never done. I've replaced rear ends, transmissions and such on cars, but I'm pretty much stuck with having my marina do the labor seeing that the cost to trailer the boat anywhere is very expensive. I was actually thinking of doing the cam replacement in the boat myself, but there is maybe one foot in front of the engine to the wall. This is a mid-cabin model and the engine is already pulled and sitting in their shop. I met someone who had this Gen.6 I'm talking about rebuilt a few months ago and fell on hard times and will probably sell it to me for $2,500. I'm not sure if I can pass it up but don't want to throw money away if it's going to lead to more problems. You're prices are very good by the way. Thanks
I understand, a year ago, picked up a 1979 Trojan F44, with rebuilt 440 Chrysler engines, The owner gave me the bill, $10,500, to pull and rebulit the engines, that was 2007.
MIKE, Slow down, BBC are many. What Lake are you on ?
As you know, a lot of guys pull engines now, to up grade, for next boating seasons. St. Louis Missouri is a good location to look.
Mitch
- prowlersfish
- 2024 Gold Support
- Posts: 12664
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va
I know its to late but as far as replacing the cam in the boat , Even with the bulkhead (wall ) 1 foot in front . just cut or use a hole saw on the bulkhead and patch when you get done . much much easier then pulling the engine .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
Unchained wrote:I still need to plant one of those money trees...I'm kinda stuck now but like your suggestions guys. Thanks.
http://www.usmarineengine.com/marine-45 ... 01-04.html
Mitch
wiped cam info
Mike,
Can you give us more details on what happened? Like # hours, previous maintenance and what the symptoms were?
I believe my boat has a pretty good oil change history judging from the way it looks inside and the way it runs, but I doubt high zinc oil was on anyones mind. I used an additive last year but at 1,000 hours who I have no idea how close/far away the cams are from having an issue.
thanks
Bob
Can you give us more details on what happened? Like # hours, previous maintenance and what the symptoms were?
I believe my boat has a pretty good oil change history judging from the way it looks inside and the way it runs, but I doubt high zinc oil was on anyones mind. I used an additive last year but at 1,000 hours who I have no idea how close/far away the cams are from having an issue.
thanks
Bob
1988 10m mid cabin
Re: wiped cam info
It's true, 80 to 90 percent of engine life is consumed by cold and dry start ups. Engines usually shut down hot, at which point the oil is thin and drips away from the bearing and other "friction intense" areas. Gradually the oil cools, thickens and becomes difficult to pump. When starting an engine, the lubrication process involves filling all oil galleys, filling the filter, pressurizing the rod, main and cam bearing as well as the entire valve train (filling the lifters and lubricating the cam lobe and rocker arms). Unfortunately, the engine is running while this lubricating process and is meshing metal against metal, hence massive engine wear takes place.BobCT wrote:Mike,
Can you give us more details on what happened? Like # hours, previous maintenance and what the symptoms were?
I believe my boat has a pretty good oil change history judging from the way it looks inside and the way it runs, but I doubt high zinc oil was on anyones mind. I used an additive last year but at 1,000 hours who I have no idea how close/far away the cams are from having an issue.
thanks
Bob
Mitch
- prowlersfish
- 2024 Gold Support
- Posts: 12664
- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay ,Va
I keep hearing that But I don't believe it . Why ? Because I have torn down many engines that have sat for a long time (even years ) and they still have a oil film on the bearing '
Notice that when you here "80 to 90 percent of engine life is consumed by cold and dry start ups" Its from from some oil additive maker ? snake old sellers like slick 50 .
Notice that when you here "80 to 90 percent of engine life is consumed by cold and dry start ups" Its from from some oil additive maker ? snake old sellers like slick 50 .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
As far as additives go I used Lucas oil stabilizer in my '97 IHC which had a N14 Cummins in it. At 890,000 miles Cummins went to replace rod&mains in it and when they dropped the mains and checked the rods there was no reason to replace them, there was absolutely no wear to the bearings. I run the truck another 100,000 before I sold it. So some additives are very good, not many but some are. Also what could be seen of the cylinders was in perfect condition. If I had to do it again I would follow the same procedure. I know its not marine related but that engine had a hard life.
Growing old is inevitable,but growing up is optional
1984 F36 w/350 Crusaders 'Reel Class'
2011 Trojan Rendevous
Solomons Get Together 2011
Ocean City 2012,2013,2015
1984 F36 w/350 Crusaders 'Reel Class'
2011 Trojan Rendevous
Solomons Get Together 2011
Ocean City 2012,2013,2015