few questions on 10 meter international

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josh
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few questions on 10 meter international

Post by josh »

hello all, i am looking at picking up one of these boats. i really like the looks of the boat, despite their age. they have lots of room, plenty for what i need it for... well for now. my main questions have to do with reliability.

how reliable are these boats? the one im looking at is an 83? i think. what is considered "high" engine hours for this year? i think the guy said this boat has 380 or close to that. i do not think that is alot, but i am not an expert. my dad says thats way too many, but he only uses his boat 25 hours a year.

i am looking to use this for sleeping quite a few folks, and general island hopping down in the bvi's. the particular boat im looking at looks to be very well kept, perhaps in need of carpet replacement which i have no problem doing, and maybe seat cover replacement(not a fan of the color or material) other then that, it looks good. of course i should get it surveyed first... but are there anythings that i need to specifically lookout for on these boats? i believe the engines are the 350 crusaders.

also, where is a good place to look for trailer rental or buying one to tow a boat of this size. i have a truck, but i dont think its capable of pulling a boat this size. its only a dodge ram hemi 2003. rwd only

also, what price is a good price for a boat like this, assuming everything works good. thanks all, hope there werent too many stupid questions in there. im new to boats of this size and age.

Wes
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1983 10 meter

Post by Wes »

Hi Josh,
We purchased a 1983 10 meter flybridge/aftcabin almost 2 years ago. The boat had the original crusader 454's (350 hp) with 229 hours on them. Before sea trial the selling broker took it out and blew the starboard engine. I think it was because they hadn't been used much.

First of all have it surveyed by a really good surveyor. That is imperative.
Check the intake air vents for water leakage. We found major leaks on ours and a neighbor with a 1989 had the same problem. I had to replace the MSD a year after we got the boat.

If you try to move it by truck I recommend you hire someone who's used to doing it. It is no small project. Ours is a unique model and it weighs about 19,000 lbs.

I know of a 1987 10 meter express that just sold for about 32,000 here in CT.

The boat is our dream boat and we love it.

Good luck and if I can help in any way just hollar.

Wes

josh
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Post by josh »

i will keep those issues in mind. how long does a normal sea trial last for? i am thinking about running the boat for between 2-4 hours to make sure no problems arise that wouldnt for a 30min trip. and yes, i dont think towing the boat will be a viable option. i might just ship it straight from where it is to the bvi's, it would save me some money for sure vs bringing it to the lake then shipping. thanks for the advice.

Wes
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10 meter questions

Post by Wes »

Our sea trial was about 2 hours. Your surveyor will control that. He went through all the systems that required the boat being in the water to operate. Then he had the person running the boat take it out on to LI Sound while he took readings on all the engines, at all speeds. Please don't try to check all these things yourself unless you've been in boating most of your life and know everything that can and will go wrong and have the right equipment. A good surveyor is worth his weight in gold.

Right now I've been looking at removing all the bottom paint on ours and after liiking at the trouble and work with chemical removers I've about decided to pay 37.00 a foot to have the yard do it with soda blasting. I usually do everything myself, but there are things better left to the pros.

In case you want to contact me directly. my email addy is DiLuna@aol.com and my cell phone is 860-655-0498.

Wes

ltbrett
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Post by ltbrett »

Great boat. I've had mine for three seasons and have found it to be bullet proof. Couple of thoughts: The systems will be old. Plan to replace lots of auxiliary gear. The low initial price of the boat will allow you to upgrade your auxiliaries and sleep well knowing you've got new warranteed gear. This would apply to any older boat you buy. Trojan's hulls are built like tanks, so upgrades to auxiliaries are worth it. My only caution is that I'm not sure this hull is a good choice for the BVI's. It is too beamy with too broad an entry and insufficient deadrise to handle the waves common in the winter months. You also have crappy range with only 250 or so gallons of gas. You get about .6 nm per gallon at cruise. Although I love the boat, I'd pass given your intended use.

Brett

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RWS
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Post by RWS »

This article first appeared in the February 1987 issue of Sea Magazine. All or parts of the information contained in this article might be outdated.

Trojan International 10 Meter
A gutsy, avant-garde original

Peter Bohr

If you’re 47 years old, drive a Mercedes or a Corvette, operate your own business, have a net worth greater than $1 million, and enjoy power boats, then it’s not a bad bet that you also own a Trojan International series boat, probably a 10 Meter.

That’s the profile of the typical Trojan owner these days, according to a marketing survey just completed by the company.

Any boat builder – or automobile manufacturer or pasta machine maker, for that matter – would love to have customer demographics like that. And Trojan can thank its 33-foot International 10 Meter model for attracting such an upscale group.

It seems like only yesterday that Trojan surprised the American power boat industry with its avant-garde 10 Meter. But the boat is now in its seventh year and Trojan has sold nearly 600 of them.

The 10 Meter was a gutsy move for a staid builder like Trojan. For some 35 years the folks at Trojan’s plant in Lancaster, PA had been quietly turning out nice, conservative family cruisers. “Boats built to a price,” is how several marine surveyors described older Trojans to me.

The early Trojans were of course constructed of wood. When the company switched to fiberglass in the late 1960s, the status of Trojan boats moved upward a notch. But despite the change of materials, the designs remained much the same, hardly distinguishable from Chris-Crafts, Owens or boats from a dozen other American builders.

Then around 1980, Trojan president Don Seith took a flier. Armed with the progressive ideas of naval architect Harry Schoell, he convinced Trojan’s parent company, Whittaker Corporation, that Trojan should build a trend setting, new kind of cruiser. Inspired by the ultra costly, ultra chic boats from Italian builder Riva, Schoell developed his own rendition of Riva’s “Med-style” boat.

The 10 Meter’s lines, inside and out, are excitingly different from most cruisers, as different as a Chevrolet Corvette from a Ford Country Squire. With its long, sleek, downward sloping foredeck, the boat resembles some wild beast ready to pounce on its prey. Below deck, the 10 Meter is filled with modernistic curved bulkheads that not only make the interior seem more like the cabin of a Lear Jet than a yacht, but are also very space efficient.

“The boat’s visual appeal initially catches the interest of buyers,” says George Rinderspacher of Pacific West Yachts in Newport Beach. “However, it’s the boat’s performance that finally grabs them.” George ought to know; he sold 24 new Trojans in 1986.

Indeed the 10 Meter’s success is based on more than sexy styling. Harry Schoell came up with an innovative hull to go with the 10 Meter’s innovative lines topside. The hull, called the “DeltaConic” design by Trojan, has unusual 18-inch wide, horizontal chines that run from bow to stern on either side. In between the chines is a more usual modified V-hull, one that’s quite deep at the bow but flattens out toward the stern.

What makes the 10 Meter truly different from other boats is its almost uncanny stability. The 10 Meter’s wide beam combined with the wide chines quickly stills any rolling motion. I’ve never been aboard a similar sized boat that felt as stable at dockside as this Trojan. Under way, the chines make the boats feel – to use an old car salesman’s cliché – like it corners on rails. Mind you, steering response isn’t especially quick. But the boat’s attitude is solid and secure as those chines lock in for the turn.

The 10 Meter’s standard twin 350 Crusader engines use a combined total of 18 gallons of gasoline per hour at a cruise speed of 28 to 30 miles per hour, according to George Rinderspacher. An AquaSonic muffler system that vents exhaust out the sides of the hull beneath the waterline is integrated into the hull during its layup. The system make the 10 Meter an unusually quiet power boat whether idling in the slip or running full bore.

The 10 Meter’s hull is solid fiberglass, but the decks and cabin side are cored with end grain balsa. My marine surveyor/advisors all commented that Trojan’s gelcoat work on the 10 Meter appeared to be of high quality.

Trojan also uses some innovative construction methods on the boat. For instance, the company vacuum bonds certain parts of the boat together. Liners are literally sucked against the hull by a vacuum pump until a resin and glass paste hardens. The technique gives a very uniform tight fit.

The 10 Meter comes in three versions. The Express, which made its debut at the Miami Boat Show in February 1981, came first. Like all the versions of the 10 Meter, the Express has a forward stateroom down below as well as a large galley, a dinette and a head. The helm and cockpit on the Express are essentially a single area, providing a huge arena for playing, partying or sun worshipping. And that’s exactly how most owners use their 10 Meters, according to the company’s survey.

The slightly more conventional-looking Sedan has a streamlined flying bridge, a saloon with a convertible sofa, and a severely abbreviated cockpit. A good configuration for cooler climes, the Sedan was introduced in early 1982.

The Mid-Cabin went into production in 1985. The exterior profile of this version is virtually identical to the Express. But the Mid-Cabin has a small sleeping area for two (with sitting headroom only) tucked under the helm.

Last year Trojan introduced a stretched version of the 10 Meter, called the 10.8 Meter (35 feet). It’s a 10 Meter Sedan with an extended cockpit and is aimed at the sportfishermen.

There have been no major changes in the basic 10 Meter design since its introduction in 1981. However, in one fell swoop in 1983, Trojan made some 200 detail changes. These included such things as upgraded interior fabrics, new instrumentation for the helm, and heavier stainless steel port lights. At the same time, Trojan abandoned what surely must have been one of the all-time worst gimmicks aboard a small yacht: electrically operated doors to the forward stateroom and head compartment. They were indeed attention getters at boat shows, but a marine environment is not exactly ideal for electric motors.

Don Seith’s gamble has obviously paid off handsomely for Trojan. The company still builds conventional cruisers (the “Classic” series), but their percentage of total sales has dwindled to 20 percent. Meanwhile, Harry Schoell’s 10 Meter has spawned a whole series of International boats, ranging from the 8.6 Meter (29 feet) to the 13 Meter (43 feet). Moreover, other American power boat manufacturers have fallen all over themselves to come up with Med-style boats of their own.

To be sure, a Trojan International 10 meter is not for everyone. But then neither is a Corvette.

This article first appeared in the February 1987 issue of Sea Magazine. All or parts of the information contained in this article might be outdated.

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RWS
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Post by RWS »

here's another article........

Cutting Edge Cruiser - Trojan 10 Meter Express
________________________________________
by Peter Bohr

Trojan's 10 Meter Express has 'the look'
Print This Article | Email This Article

"Euro-style" or "Med-style" -- call it what you will. But peruse any harbor, and you'll see plenty of examples of "the look."



Low, sleek and powerful, the Euro-style boat is as different from the traditional boxy power cruiser as Hillary Clinton is from Rush Limbaugh.



It was Trojan Yachts, formerly of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, that first brought the look to this country. When Trojan's 10 Meter International Series Express made its debut in 1981, it launched a new kind of family cruiser that's since been embraced by most American boat builders, from Bayliner to Tiara.



Besides giving the boat a sexy profile, the bold styling of Trojan's 10 Meter has several functional advantages over the usual flying bridge sedan cruiser of the day. The huge cockpit beneath the radar arch is the perfect place for sunning or partying.



And because the helm is in the cockpit -- not high above on the bridge -- the skipper isn't removed from any socializing in the cockpit. Nor does the skipper have to sprint up and down steps to handle lines, which makes dockside maneuvers much easier.



The Trojan 10 Meter's avant-garde look doesn't stop there. Belowdecks, the cabin is filled with modernistic curved surfaces and lush decor. On the earliest 10 Meters, the curved bulkhead door leading to the forward stateroom was even electrically operated, like something from the starship ,/Enterprise.



But once again, there is function in the form. Instead of unusable voids made by the sharp corners of square bulkheads, the 10 Meter's curved panels make for a more spacious and comfortable interior. "We didn't want people to get beat up by the corner of a table," said Harry Schoell, the 10 Meter's designer.



The boat's visual appeal alone might have made it a marketplace hit. But Schoell also came up with an innovative hull to go along with the 10 Meter's innovative lines topside.



Schoell's patented DeltaConic hull design has 18 inch wide horizontal chines that run from bow to stern on either side. In between the chines, the modified-V hull is deep at the bow and flatter toward the stern.

It all works remarkably well. The 10 Meter's wide body, combined with the wide chines, provides a remarkably stable and dry ride. Steering response isn't especially quick, but the boat feels solid and secure when those wide chines lock in for a turn.



With its standard twin 350 Crusader gasoline engines, the 10 Meter has a decent turn of speed -- though the boat isn't as fast as it looks to some people. The top speed is in the mid-30 mph range, and cruising speed is around 25 to 28 mph.



At cruising speed, the pair of Crusaders will burn about 20 gallons an hour combined. Diesels were an option, though never a popular one.



The original 10 Meter Express was eventually joined by a more conventional-looking 10 Meter flying bridge sedan (in 1982) and a 10 Meter midcabin design (in 1985). The latter model looks almost identical to the Express on the outside, but has a small sleeping area for two tucked under the helm.



The 10 Meter was not only a success in creating a whole new genre of cruiser in America, but it was a sales success for its builder. Between 1981 and 1989, Trojan sold more than 600 of these boats.



But alas, the company's fortunes were not all so sweet. After nearly 40 years of boat building, venerable Trojan entered bankruptcy. In 1992, the company's remains were purchased by Carver Boat Corp.



But happily for the owners -- and prospective owners -- of Trojan's 10 Meter Express, these boats are not orphans. Carver has retained a parts supply organization in Lancaster that can provide virtually anything for the 10 Meters (or almost any Trojan built since the late 1960s, for that matter) -- from radar arches to grabrails.



By all accounts, the 10 Meter hulls were stoutly constructed. Some boats built during 1985 and 1986 were afflicted with hull blisters, but most of these were permanently repaired under warranty by Trojan -- at a cost of about $10,000 a job.



In your search for a 10 Meter Express, keep in mind those acres of exposed cockpit. Though the earliest editions were rather sparsely outfitted, later boats had all manner of upholstered seats, wet bars and the like, which can deteriorate rapidly in the sun.



Moreover, according to surveyor Bunker Hill of Maritime Consultants in Newport Beach, these Trojans' interior cabinetry and fittings weren't especially durable. So you may have to perform some cabin refurbishing as well.



A new 10 Meter Express carried a base price of $74,500 in 1981,

and the price tag rose to just over $100,000 by the end of its production run. Today, expect to pay between $45,000 and $95,000.
________________________________________
This article first appeared in the July 1994 issue of Sea Magazine. All or parts of the information contained in this article might be outdated.

josh
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Post by josh »

ltbrett wrote:Great boat. I've had mine for three seasons and have found it to be bullet proof. Couple of thoughts: The systems will be old. Plan to replace lots of auxiliary gear. The low initial price of the boat will allow you to upgrade your auxiliaries and sleep well knowing you've got new warranteed gear. This would apply to any older boat you buy. Trojan's hulls are built like tanks, so upgrades to auxiliaries are worth it. My only caution is that I'm not sure this hull is a good choice for the BVI's. It is too beamy with too broad an entry and insufficient deadrise to handle the waves common in the winter months. You also have crappy range with only 250 or so gallons of gas. You get about .6 nm per gallon at cruise. Although I love the boat, I'd pass given your intended use.

Brett
do you know what the deadrise angle is on this boat?

also, i dont think mileage is really a concern, seeing as the islands are only a few miles apart. i do not see going to virgin gorda all that often, and even so its not THAT far. really will only going between st thomas, st john, jost van dyke and tortola. they arent THAT far out... and i was also thinking about a couple of solar panels for battery charging. two of the 105 watt ones. and to be honest, i really havent noticed any real waves in the winter months, at least not where i have been going. perhaps on the tortola, i hear about huge waves over there all the time.

ltbrett
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Post by ltbrett »

RWS wrote:The 10 Meter’s standard twin 350 Crusader engines use a combined total of 18 gallons of gasoline per hour at a cruise speed of 28 to 30 miles per hour, according to George Rinderspacher. An AquaSonic muffler system that vents exhaust out the sides of the hull beneath the waterline is integrated into the hull during its layup. The system make the 10 Meter an unusually quiet power boat whether idling in the slip or running full bore.
I don't think Mr. Rinderspacher has ever been aboard a 10 Meter or bought gas for one. :?

To answer your question on deadrise, I'm not 100% sure how to answer you. I measured it at 12 degrees, but that is not a number you can directly compare to other hulls in any meaningful way. The issue is the delta conic hull. It works extremely well for protected waters. Ocean rollers are fine, too. The problem with the BVI's is a snotty chop in the Drake channel and between JVD and Tortola. When this builds to over 5 feet (common in the winter), you'll be looking for a Hatt, Blackfin, Bert, or something that will slice through. 10 M's go over. If you are willing to restrict your cruising to low wind days, the boat will be a great choice. And forget about trailering. You need all kinds of special gear and permits to tow something this big.

Brett
Last edited by ltbrett on Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wes
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Gas

Post by Wes »

I agree with Itbrett completely. We burn 1.75 gal per mile and I'm not a speed demon. That works out to about .6 miles per gal.

josh
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Post by josh »

i am not worried about fuel costs. i will not be paying for it, except when i want to use the boat on my own. as for towing, ive ruled that out. ill probably just ship it straight down there, with whatever i buy. i really dont want to even look at boats down there, they are way overpriced from what ive seen. i just want to make sure there are no faults in the actual design that would cause premature failure on something. my main concern is reliability. also, the deadrise thing isnt THAT big of a deal to me. i wont be cruising around much, unless im taking people out. i like the info though, keep it coming. sorry i cant reveal the entire picture, but there is more to it then im telling. just cant say any more right now.

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Post by RWS »

Before repowering to diesels I was able to consistently average .8 NMPG with results as high as .85.

This was accomplished by using a fuel flow meter, GPS and a digital tach/synchronizer.

15 kts @ 2800 RPM was the sweet spot after increasing the size of the factory trim tabs, removing the exhaust diverters and discovering that one of the carburetors had the wrong metering rods.

With the diesels, we are averaging 5.87 gph overall and cruise at over 20 kts with a top WOT speed of 27.3 kts.

On a trip to Key West last year with full fuel, water and EIGHT ADULTS on board and an amazing amount of luggage, gear food and beverages ran 17 gph at 22.5 kts resulting in 1.3 NMPG in an assortment of seas, none of which were smooth. That's a tremendous amount of weight for a 33' vessel which caused her performance economy to suffer significantly.

Our comfort level was not compromised.

With a normal load her performance is significantly better. Next time we make a run like that we'll get better data.

Now that we're keeping track of actual nautical miles travelled we will be able to determine our average fuel burn much better.

No, it's not a Hatteras or a Bertram. Fine vessels with tremendous design, engineering and resale value.

On the other hand, it's not a Sea Ray.

On the used market with thier innovative luster worn and no longer the darling of the boating press, the now orphaned Trojan International series represents a tremendous value for those in the know.

RWS

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Re: few questions on 10 meter international

Post by NightSailor »

great info. I'm looking at a project boat now, a it seems like what I'm looking for.

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Re: few questions on 10 meter international

Post by RWS »

That thread is 13 years old

here's some newer information:

www.trojanboat.com

RWS
1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED

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