Marinas

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blair
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Marinas

Post by blair »

Hello Folks,
In view of the fact that I'm new to boats of the size you can"t trailer (bought a '79 tri cabin in August) I'm curious about marina practices in general.
While I love the tri cabin as it is (was) part of the deal was that my wife wanted the interior re-done. When we selected a marina...close to home, nice part of the Trent system in Ontario, I mentioned to the owner that I would be having some work done over he lay up season.
Last week, I get a call from my wife...the marina owner has run our cabinet maker off and he wants to talk to me. So I call...seems he's out of joint because he "doesn't allow outsiders to do any work on boats at his marina".
I'm kind of pissed, and not easily intimidated, and so I asked him if he even DID cabinet work, and did he forget that I had already told him our plans.

I get it...he's in the business to make money.However, I figure at 36' and two 120 gallon fuel tanks, he's going to make a few dollars off of me over the course of the year, what with haul out, storage, dock fees, parking, surcharge for A/C, etc. However, I'm curious...are ALL marinas like this, or am I involved with a marina owner who just wants it all?
We like the area, it's close to home, but so are quite a few other marinas on the Trent.Just curious to see if most marina operators ban ALL outside contractors. Keep in mind, I'm not using ANY of his utilities and I've already paid him for the limited services I've used. I'm capable of turning a wrench and most service is well within my skills...he got really pissed when I sourced new impellers elsewhere, as "they don't do impellers over the winter".
Thanks,
Blair
('79 Tri Cabin...lovin this thing!)
summer storm
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Post by summer storm »

Down here in Florida we have two types of yards, the do it yourself yard and the full service yard. The full service yard prohibits any contractors from coming in to do work that the yard is capable of doing. If the yard can't do the work then they will allow a contractor to come in if they have insurance and yard approval. And sometimes the yard will require a percentage of the bill paid to them. The do it yourself yards will normally allow contractors to come in but they must show that they have proper insurance.

I guess it really depends what the yard rules are, and they are generally listed on the agreement you signed when you hauled the boat.

As far as you planning to be around for a while and spending money, well how does he know that. People's plans change all the time so I can't see him counting the money just yet. It might help if you pay the summer dockage now and show him you really plan on sticking around.
Doug

1977 F-32
1982 Chris Craft 280
1992 Boston Whaler 13 Super Sport Limited
1974 F-25 (Sold)
1979 F-26 (sold)
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prowlersfish
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Post by prowlersfish »

As summer storm said you have different types of marinas that allow different things . The time to find out is when you sign a Lease . Almost all require a sub contractor to have insurance .


Some marinas will have a aproved sub list or a baned sub list . ours has a baned list . Our baned list is for subs that have done damage or done real poor work . its a short list
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blair
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Post by blair »

Hey guys,thanks for your input.
To clarify, there is nothing in the contract that speaks to outside contractors.Any work that this marina can't handle is sent to another marina,where the owners son is employed.My wife works for a building contractor so this particular cabinet maker is insured,bonded and has full compliance with our provincial workers insurance program.We have his compliance certs on file as he also does work in our home.As for next season,we have already paid about $1000 in various fees for 2012 (haul out,storage,etc...) plus a50% deposit to hold a slip for 2013 but Im starting to wonder if maybe we need to find a different marina. Im not naive but I really didn't know there would be such restrictions on who I could hire to do various work on our boat.I suppose I should be glad there does not appear to be a surcharge for outside work.As an aside, the airport that I keep my aircraft has no such restrictions.Maybe it's just a boating thing?One thing I do know...you learn something new every day :)
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aaronbocknek
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Location: baltimore, md (alexandria, va and middle river,md) PARKSIDE MARINA

Post by aaronbocknek »

hi blair, welcome to the forum and congrats on your tri cabin purchase. like the guys above have said, there are two types of marinas, a 'working marina' with on premises travel lifts, machine shop, wood shop etc generally either do not allow outside contractors. one up the road from me, edwards boat yard, generally does not allow do it yourselfers, and if a contractor is brought in from outside, they expect an immediate 15% surcharge from the outside guy. in my area there are many marinas that allow one to do their own work or allow mechanics, graphics guys, interior designers, etc to work on boats, my marina is one of these. they just want to know that they are properly insured and if the contractor/electrician is abyc certified. i'm curious about the impeller issue though. to have a boat yard/marina say they do not do impellers over the off season is odd at best. will they allow you to do the work yourself or are they going to toss you out if they see you with a screw driver or wrench in hand? do they allow boat owners to do routine work on their boats? if not, i'd find another marina asap.

sorry for your frustration on this. it can be annoying at best. i do think it's just a 'boat thing' when it comes to this. keep us posted, and, of course, we would love to see pics of before, during and after of your tri cabin.

tri cabin aaron, baltimore, md.
1982 F-36 TRI CABIN ENTERPRISE
PARKSIDE MARINA IN MIDDLE RIVER, MD
aaronbocknek@gmail.com
jimbo36
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Post by jimbo36 »

Hey Blair, As a marina operater in Ontario I can shed some light on your questions. First of all, you need to understand a marine is responsible for any outside contractors that enter and work on site to; The Occupational Health & Safety Act (inspectors appear regularly without notice), Workmans Compansation, in addition to their own individual Insurance Company and their inspectors. We are registered as a "Clean Marine" and carry the highest rating within the program at 5 gold anchors. Most marinas that take environmental protection seriously are diligent in knowing who is on site and for what reason. You probably (unknowingly)upset the owner by not clearing the contractor on arrival. Most marinas have signs to alert contractors to check in on arrival and most know the drill.

This is definatly not unusual. It is the norm. In fact, most Ontario Marinas use the Ontario Marina Operators Association lease contract that is a standard form that does cover this in a clause intitaled "THIRD PARTY SERVICES" You may want to check your paperwork again. We are a full service marina and emply 5 technicians. Our customers are required to have us perform all service work. It is the businees we are in, it is what we do. However, it is up to us to provide excellent services otherwise we lose our customers.Try going to a resturant and saying, "nothing for me, I brought my own food". Our marina is full and we have a wait list. A good reflection on us.:wink:
blair
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Post by blair »

Hi jimbo thanks for the reply and edification.It really does make sense from that perspective.I was just kind of taken aback when I started to sense that I would be losing control over choosing who would perform any service that I was not going to do personally.I'll get over it and learn to live within the parameters.
Additonally, we actually had a look at your marina.It appeared to be a fine operation,offering everything we wanted in a marina at a price we considered reasonable.In fact, the "total package" was very attractive and the price was pretty much what we will wind up paying in our current lovation.
You probably know our boat...it was the tri cabin that was pre iously based out of Owen Sound.When we took delivery at Waubushine everyone there seemed to know all about it,too.
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BobCT
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Post by BobCT »

My marina is a totally DIY place and I wouldn't be anywhere else for that reason. As a matter of fact, a guy blew an engine over the summer and they used the travel lift to hoist his engine and charged him $200 in/out.

He did all the work himself. People are pretty good about it and don't abuse it.. meaning there aren't parts laying all over the place.

Bob
1988 10m mid cabin
jimbo36
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Location: Belleville, Ontario

Post by jimbo36 »

Blair, Yes, lots of Trojans up here for sure. We have 7 at Bay Moorings alone (including my 36 Tri). If you plan on coming our way next season come and visit for a couple of days,.. on us. :wink:
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Commissionpoint
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Post by Commissionpoint »

I keep my boat at home, so during the season its here and I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, with whomever I want. Thats a nice thing about being able to keep your boat at your home.

I do now, with the F-32, use the Yacht Club over in Harris Bay for storage. They are both full service and DIY over there. I can put in a work order for whatever I want them to do over the winter, or I can just go over there and do stuff myself. Its a pretty nice arrangement.

Like others have said many times already though, they are pretty strict when outside contractors come in when it comes to proper insurance.

Additionally, Like BobCT said about his marina, the HBYC will do nice things for folks like pick an engine out, or drop one in for somebody at very reasonable rates. You can get a dayhaul for 8 hrs if you need to mess with running gear or change out something below the waterline for $82.50, or $55 bux if you are under 31 feet. Pretty decent if you ask me. A real great place with super nice people. Its where we kept the old Trojan and dads old Catalinas before we built the new dock here at the house.

Check out the place here.

http://www.hbyc.com/

Just don't look at the dock sales section unless you have both deep pockets and a strong stomach. ;) At current prices most of us couldn't get a sufficient dock for our boats over there for less than 125 grand. :shock:
1978 F-32 "Eclipse"
Merc 305 SBC's
1.52:1 Borg Warners

1983 Correct Craft
Commander 351 Ford (PCM)
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jimbo36
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Post by jimbo36 »

I should mention, we have no problem with our customers doing their own work on their own boat as long as they comply with our rules. ie; Disposal of oil, fluids, anti freeze, etc in the proper areas, in addition to proper proceedures to protect the interests of all of our boaters. So, we do allow DIY. If an owner wants to do more involved repairs we will locate their boat accordingly to accomodate them. 8)
Vitaliy
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Post by Vitaliy »

I love my marina that im at, i can do my own work as long as its not interfeering with other peoples boats (spray painting or what not), i took my flybridge off while in the water to run some new electricalls and reseal everything without an issue. as long as there isnt stuff everywhere or a MAJOR repair they would say a word.

its nice to have an ONAN licensed shop in the back as well and a full fledged marine HVAC and mechanics shop at the marina as well for those jobs that are just to much to do on your own :)

we do have a huge sign at the entry way to the marina CONTRACTORS MUST CHECK IN AT FRONT OFFICE thou... for paperwork reasons obviously. but otherwise we have people do work there all the time...
1974 F36 Tri-Cabin "Jorallyn"
Vitaliy
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Post by Vitaliy »

I love my marina that im at, i can do my own work as long as its not interfeering with other peoples boats (spray painting or what not), i took my flybridge off while in the water to run some new electricalls and reseal everything without an issue. as long as there isnt stuff everywhere or a MAJOR repair they would say a word.

its nice to have an ONAN licensed shop in the back as well and a full fledged marine HVAC and mechanics shop at the marina as well for those jobs that are just to much to do on your own :)

we do have a huge sign at the entry way to the marina CONTRACTORS MUST CHECK IN AT FRONT OFFICE thou... for paperwork reasons obviously. but otherwise we have people do work there all the time...
1974 F36 Tri-Cabin "Jorallyn"
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BarryL
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Post by BarryL »

Most Marinas near me (Inland lakes, Northern Illinois) allow owners to do light to medium maintenance without issue as long as the owner respects the surroundings and has a good relationship with the operator. Outside contractors need to check in, show required paperwork and be approved. In some cases the operator will add a surcharge and in other situations they will not. I agree that if the marina has qualified mechanics, technicians etc... they should be your first choice if the rates are reasonable and the quality of work is good. (competitive)

If you are a boat owner that has a good relationship with the marina that is how it should be. We are there to be supported for a fee and have certain expectations. The owner is there to make a living and also has certain expectations.

I for one am happy to support local marinas when they do good work, are reliable, and are fair. It's a long term relationship and universal trust and respect should be part of the equation and it need to be a two way street.

The Marina owner that chimed in with an earlier post sounds like he would be a good man to have that type of relationship with. It's a shame not all are that way just as not all boaters are that way.

Just my .02

Barry
I love my boat! It takes all of my money and doesn't bitch.
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BarryL
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Post by BarryL »

Follow up to my previous post-

Two years ago I had a Trojan 320 express (Carver with Trojan badges) and hauled it to the closest marina to launch for the year.

The marina had a sign clearly posted that on certain days using the ramp was not allowed unless you were a winter storage or slip customer. I was there on a prohibited day but it was raining slightly and there was not a single customer in sight. I backed up to the ramp and prepared to pay the $25.00 fee when the owner came over and suggested I get closer to the dock so my trailer would not fall off the side of the concrete ramp.

I thanked him for the tip and went about the business of preparing to launch. The owner them came back up to me and asked if I stored the boat with them or was a summer slip customer. I was honest and said no and that I knew today was not a "Public launch day" but with the rain and all I thought it would be ok. As I am in the process of handing him the $25 he asked me to leave his premises because I had no winter storage agreement or summer slip agreement and that day was not open to the general public.

This is a man that I have known as an acquaintance for 20 years. I asked him if he was serious and also told him that I was going to visit the ships store for some goodies and probably would need about $800 in fuel from his pumps. He insisted that I leave his premises.

Without a word I got back in my truck and drove away to another marina that was not as convenient and proceeded to launch the boat. This marina waived the launch fee when I bought my gas and offered 2 free pump outs with the deal. That in my opinion is good business.

The marina owner that insisted I leave his property that day has not earned any of my fuel business or any other business of mine ever since. (Probably about $15 thousand in fuel and incidentals over the past two boating seasons)

When people ask me which marina to use for service work, fuel, or storage guess which place I recommend?

I have since learned that the Marina with the rude and penny foolish owner has lost 2 of his three new boat sales lines and is in bad shape financially.

He probably has no clue where all the customers have gone. All he would need to do is look across the lake at the smart business man that owns the other marina and see where the people who value "relationships" are spending their hard earned cash on a daily basis.

I am sure there are many stories like mine but I wonder how some places stay in business.

It goes back to my old saying- I have a guaranteed way to make a Million dollars on the Chain of Lakes. Start with two million...
I love my boat! It takes all of my money and doesn't bitch.
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