1977 26' Trojan Flybridge suffers from 9 knots

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FROM GENTILMAN FROM NEW JERSEY <<TROJAN SPEC WERE NOT

Post by Trojanboats.net » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:41 pm

I THINK I AM THE GENTILMAN FROM NEW JERSEY

THE PERFORMACE NUMBERS I GAVE ARE TROJAN'S PERFORMACE NUMBERS. WE HAVE FOUND THAT IN MOST CASES WITH MOST IF NOT ALL TROJAN BOATS THAT TROJAN SPEC. FOR PERFORMACE WERE CORRECT.

MANY OF THE PERFORMACE SPEED TEST WERE DONE ON THE CD CANAL BETWEEN NJ AND PA. CALM WATER MYBE A GOOD TIDE FOR A LITTLE HELP WITH TWO PEOPLE ON BOARD AND FULL OF FUEL. TEST WERE DONE WITH BOAT SET UP WITH STANDERED EQP LIST.

BEST WAY TO TEST IF BOAT AND MOTORS ARE UP TO PAR IS RUN HER FLAT OUT.

EVERY TROJAN WAS SET TO DO MAX RPM 4000 IF SHE CAN NOT GET TO 4000 OR CLOSE 3800 THEN SOMETHING IS WRONG.

OVER THAT 4300 AND UP AGAIN SOMTHING IS WRONG

CRUSE WAS ALWAYS BETWEEN 3000 AND 3500

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BEACON MARINE SUPPLY

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KNOT AND MPH

Post by Trojanboats.net » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:52 pm

IT MAY BE THAT THE CONFUSION IS BETWEEN MPH AND KNOT i GAVE MPH AND THE ART SITED WAS IN KNOT 25 KNOT IS CLOSE IF NOT 30 MPH

HAPPY BOATING

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KNOTS vs MPH

Post by Sivak » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:39 am

Beacon Marine,

I think you might be right about the conversion. Nonetheless I am looking forward to see how the work my buddy & I have done will affect the results. I have pretty much decided to leave the flybridge on & just look for a folding ladder to make more room.

I hope to have results to post come early April! I sure think 20+ MPH is realistic. My mechanic says the engine is running great.

Thanks,

Todd

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Post by JimG » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:51 am

I ran again this weekend on a just-cleaned bottom, and saw 21MPH (not knots) at 3400rpm. Cruise was 18mph at 2900, pretty as you please... fuel consumption was 7.5 to 8 gph at 2900rpm.

Jim
1970 Donzi 18 2+3, 1993 Stryker 3800 Thunder

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Post by Sivak » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:47 pm

Jim,

Here is a question for you. When running at an angle to the waves - say 45 or 60 degrees - while headed toward a destination or turning, have you ever experienced a sharp tilt or sway to the right or left??? I have had on a few ocassions had the boat lunge and lean hard right while running at about 8-10 knots in 3 to 4 footers. It is like the keel catches and throws the boat to the right! I almost lost a crew member one morning & certainly have lost all contents in the fridge each time!

I had heard about this happening from the previous owner (he was kind enough to "warn" me) and he explained that it was a hull design flaw in the mid - late 70's model trojans. If I remember correctly both times I was coming down the backside of a wave at an angle. Both times it was a hard right that the boat took.

Todd

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Post by chucka » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:58 pm

My belated apologies to Beacon Marine.

I did indeed mis-read 25 mph instead of 25 knots in the Powerboat review article cited above. 25 knots = 28.7 mph (almost) 30 as previously indicated by the gentleman from NJ.

Regarding erratic steering performance in a following sea on the F-26. I opted to add a 6" vertical extension to the keel and upgraded to a larger rudder for improved tracking stability. I probably gave up a little performance, but the boat is a lot more comfortable.

I posted a photo on this forum previously:
http://www.trojanboats.net/wforum/viewt ... highlight=

Regards,
Chuck
formerly
Lots A Luck
Trojan F-26 Express
Narragansett Bay, RI

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Post by Sivak » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:48 pm

Chuck,

Thanks for the information. Your previous post link was helpful as well. Do you know if the 1977 F-26 was produced with a hollow keel as well? Can I also assume that from your post & the subsequent 6" keel addition that you did in fact experience the same control issues? If so, I would appreciate it if you could share more details as to the weather/water conditions the boat is most likely experience this effect. I would prefer to minimize those senarios and reduce any risk of it happening again.

Very many thanks,

Todd

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Post by chucka » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:46 pm

Todd,

I'm not sure that I would describe my past experience the way you described yours...
I have had on a few ocassions had the boat lunge and lean hard right while running at about 8-10 knots in 3 to 4 footers. It is like the keel catches and throws the boat to the right! I almost lost a crew member one morning & certainly have lost all contents in the fridge each time!
I never experienced the kind of violent turn you described. I had a hard time tracking in a straight line, particulary in following seas (even 1.5 to 2 feet). The boat would tend to oversteer, wandering left and right and required constant helm corrections. What you described sounds like a broaching condtion. I moor my boat on a crowded tidal river and the small rudder made low speed manuvering with the tide running very challenging. With the keel extension & larger rudder, she tracks much straighter (not perfectly, but signifianctly better) and is easier to steer in a following sea, and manuvers easlily at low speed even when the tide is running hard in a crowded mooring field.

I don't know about the hollow keel on a 1977, but I suspect it is the same. Pick up the floor panel under the companionway stairs and tap on the bottom of the hull near the centerline. If it sounds like a thin panel, its hollow. That space tends to accumulate some pretty sludgy bilge water and can be a source of odors in summer and freezing problems in winter. The keel extension was a pretty major project, that only experienced and dedicated do-it yourselfers should undertake on their own, however; I would advise any F-26 owner to consider upgrading the rudder. That is a pretty straightforward project, and probably contributed most of the improvement. I bought my replacement rudder used from a consignment shop, making it a pretty inexpensive upgrade.

Chuck
formerly
Lots A Luck
Trojan F-26 Express
Narragansett Bay, RI

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Post by JimG » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:15 pm

I've never experienced the sudden turn you talk about. The closest thing was this: Once while passing a plowing cruiser, I dug the bow into the next wave and the boat swapped ends on me. Luckily I was only going around 15mph, so it wasn't bad.
1970 Donzi 18 2+3, 1993 Stryker 3800 Thunder

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Post by Sivak » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:29 pm

Jim & Chuck,

I appreciate the feedback. I don't believe an extended keel is needed in my case. I do like the larger rudder concept. I will check to see if the keel is hollow and take the appropriate actions.

As far as the broaching/lurching, I am not sure what to say. I have had it twice now and both were somewhat to severely scary. It does sound similar to what Jim described from the crossing of the cruiser's waves. I almost feel that an extended keel would make matters worse. Straight on or against waves is no problem. It is on the angle that is tough. I have pretty much changed teh manner in which I chart my course based on the waves. As spring approaches and I am able to get out I will run a few solo voyages with the sole purpose of recreating the event.

Last question I have - what are the dimensions of your prop(s) that have produced the speeds you have shared?? I have both the 14X9 cupped & 14X11 with a slight cup & don't know which to run. What has worked best for you?

Thanks for all the help & information!!!! Can't wait to get back out on Lake Michigan.

Todd

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Post by JimG » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:37 pm

I run a 3 blade 14x9 cupped. It works pretty well. But I also have a fourblade 13x13 that I'd like to have reworked into a 13x10, (if it can be done). I've read some great things about running fourblades on older inboards on the Shamrock and Penn Yan forums. I know our hulls are different than those, and may not get the same results, but it's worth a try...
1970 Donzi 18 2+3, 1993 Stryker 3800 Thunder

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Sudden Turn

Post by Paul » Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:12 pm

Sivak,

I know exactly what you mean about the sudden sharp turn. I've had this happen to me on a few occasions over the first couple years of owning my F-26.(It scared the crap out of my wife) I installed a new larger rudder which definatly helped the overall handling of the boat but did not solve the sharp turn problem. It became obvious to me that this was a handling flaw that I would have to learn to deal with.

When taking waves on the bow, port or stbd bow or directly from the side the boat handles great. When traveling slowly with the waves from behind, the boat tends to get pushed around. If the waves are hitting you from either of the stern quarters, it becomes hard to control. When this happens, the natural reaction is to slow down and try to gain better control. "WRONG"!!! If you apply enough throttle to get moving much faster than the waves, the boat will handle much better.

As far as the sharp sudden turn goes, I found that this would happen mostly when being overtaken by another boat. I would be up on plane cruising about 18-20 mph and would get passed by a boat doing 30or so. Eventually his wake would catch up to me on the stern quarter, causing lift on that quarter, and the boat would make an unexpected sudden sharp turn. To prevent this from happening again, I now watch for the overtaking boat's wake to get close to me then turn into it so that I cross it on a port or stbd bow.

We make quite a few trips thru the Detroit River every summer where on weekends the boat wake comes at you from every direction. In these conditions I keep the tabs up, which allows the back of the boat to sit deep in the water, and cruise with enough throttle to maintain 15-18 mph. I've found that this is the best way for my boat to handle these conditions.

Hope This Helps
Paul
Cruise Control

PS for Jim G: I run a 300hp 350cid with a 13x10 NiBrAl cupped. The boat is usually loaded heavy and cruises about 20mph @ 3500 rpm in fresh water.

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Post by Sivak » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:08 pm

Paul saves my sanity! While I grew up on the water, I had never experienced a larger vessel like the F-26. I thought for awhile that it was the operator! What you describe is exactly what has happened to me. downside angle of waves overtaking the boat. I have not had properly working trim tabs to assess the maginitude of the issue & look forward to heeding your suggestions this coming season. I appreciate your post!

Todd

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