Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

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todd brinkerhoff
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Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by todd brinkerhoff »

I first posed this question on yorklyn's thread, but didn't want to hijack it.

I've seen a number of people put a tremendous amount of money and time into their trojans , including Yorklyn, Natchamp, RWS.

The reason I ask is that I am just in the research mode of checking out a diesel conversion. When I talk to people, the comments are usually, "if it was a Tiara, Bertram, or Viking I can see it, but not a Trojan."

So, I guess one of my questions is, why did you get into a Trojan? My answer is that I knew nothing of Trojans. My buddy's in-laws were selling their 10.8 express and it was pretty cheap compared to other boats its size. After I bought it, I started researching, and found the history interesting. Plus, it has a great support group.

Some people will tell me to just get rid of it and buy a boat with diesels. The problem is that I've watched 10.8 Meter Expresses sit on Yachtworld for years. There's no market for it.

So, is it worth keeping and restoring? And I'm not talking about trying to flip a boat and make money. I know people will say, "if you absolutely love the boat, money doesn't matter.". But there's a little life lesson knocking on everyone's door. Its called "life is unpredictable" and you may HAVE to sell.

I've been on forums where guys with 31 and 33 gas powered Bertram's are encouraged to put diesels in their boats. That's not the case with Trojans.

Let me be clear, I love the boat. I heard if one guy who put Cummins diesels into my same boat and said the boat is fantastic. That was over 10 years ago though.

Just need a reality check.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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ready123
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by ready123 »

todd brinkerhoff wrote:Some people will tell me to just get rid of it and buy a boat with diesels. The problem is that I've watched 10.8 Meter Expresses sit on Yachtworld for years. There's no market for it.
So, is it worth keeping and restoring? And I'm not talking about trying to flip a boat and make money. I know people will say, "if you absolutely love the boat, money doesn't matter.". But there's a little life lesson knocking on everyone's door. Its called "life is unpredictable" and you may HAVE to sell.
I've been on forums where guys with 31 and 33 gas powered Bertram's are encouraged to put diesels in their boats. That's not the case with Trojans.
Let me be clear, I love the boat. I heard if one guy who put Cummins diesels into my same boat and said the boat is fantastic. That was over 10 years ago though.
Just need a reality check.
Yes, if YOU want to use it with diesels. No, if you want to get the majority of your money out of the boat afterwards or even half :( .

As your comments suggest you appreciate that in the open marketplace the general buyer considers a Bertram worth having and they likely know nothing about Trojans. I believe that is because the Trojan brand died so long ago and Bertrams are still in production even though mainly 50'+.
I believe it is fair to say only Trojan owners or ex-owners appreciate the value of Trojans.
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RWS
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by RWS »

Depends on

how you will use the boat AFTER the repower vs. how you use her now.

current condition/state of the existing 454 Crusaders and their bolt on systems.

your own age and anticipated years of boating

the general condition of the boat

number of annual hours it will be used

emotions

feelings

heart

we make decisions based on feelings and then justify them with facts.

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
todd brinkerhoff
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by todd brinkerhoff »

I read this comment from someone; "The Trojan International is a lot of boat for the money. But, be prepared to keep the boat for a very long time because you'll never be able to sell it." I think its probably pretty accurate.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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RWS
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by RWS »

Todd,

I believe if you were in a place where year round boating could be enjoyed with limitless destination possibilities for all kinds of adventures, you would not have to ask this question, given all that your boat is.

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
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yorklyn
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by yorklyn »

my first boat was 1977 f28 trojan with the 12'3" beam. We traded her in on a new Donzi lxc 275 express cruiser and love the 35mph cruise speed at 11gph and 52mph top end to outrun a occasional storm but missed the room. we knew we were going to have kids and my wife wanted a bigger boat. We looked at virtually every used boat in the 30 to 40ish range and kept comparing them to the 10 meter mid cabin. We looked at a few 40ft sportfish boats that my wife shot down because the cockpit was too small. The 10 meter mid cabin was the only boat we could find in our price range that had a large/huge cockpit, our own private stateroom and a aft cabin for the kids. I really wanted an 11 meter or a 10.8 sportfish but honey kept going back to the aft cabin.
I liked the internationals because I had read numerous reviews on how solid their hulls were. Ironically What I really wanted was a solid hull with no structural problems . I figured if I had a solid foundation I could always remodel her down the road a bit! LMFAO !
If I had know what I was getting into I would have bought an RV!
If I was specifically looking for a basket to redo I probably would have looked for a 31 bertram because of their demand and price when redone. I have briefly thought of buying a 10 meter express that was in need of some love and attention. I've seen a few for around $4000. then I looked at my bank account and I was back to reality!
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by RWS »

todd brinkerhoff wrote:I read this comment from someone; "The Trojan International is a lot of boat for the money. But, be prepared to keep the boat for a very long time because you'll never be able to sell it." I think its probably pretty accurate.
===================================================================================================

There is less of a market for 20-30 year old boats than 5-15 year old boats.

Even less for an orphaned Brand.

Even less for an orphaned brand that has not been in production since, what, 1993 ?

I own a 1963 Studebaker Avanti.

Factory supercharged, fiberglass bodied sporty car with a factory built in roll bar.

Will blow the doors off any 1963 Corvette in straight line acceleration.

Still, a '63 Vette in similar condition will bring far more than my Stude.

It's all about supply and demand.

The bloom has been off this rose for awhile.

BUT.......

Don't confuse THAT with engineering, performance or VALUE.

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
todd brinkerhoff
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by todd brinkerhoff »

yorklyn wrote:my first boat was 1977 f28 trojan with the 12'3" beam. We traded her in on a new Donzi lxc 275 express cruiser and love the 35mph cruise speed at 11gph and 52mph top end to outrun a occasional storm but missed the room. we knew we were going to have kids and my wife wanted a bigger boat. We looked at virtually every used boat in the 30 to 40ish range and kept comparing them to the 10 meter mid cabin. We looked at a few 40ft sportfish boats that my wife shot down because the cockpit was too small. The 10 meter mid cabin was the only boat we could find in our price range that had a large/huge cockpit, our own private stateroom and a aft cabin for the kids. I really wanted an 11 meter or a 10.8 sportfish but honey kept going back to the aft cabin.
I liked the internationals because I had read numerous reviews on how solid their hulls were. Ironically What I really wanted was a solid hull with no structural problems . I figured if I had a solid foundation I could always remodel her down the road a bit! LMFAO !
If I had know what I was getting into I would have bought an RV!
If I was specifically looking for a basket to redo I probably would have looked for a 31 bertram because of their demand and price when redone. I have briefly thought of buying a 10 meter express that was in need of some love and attention. I've seen a few for around $4000. then I looked at my bank account and I was back to reality!
You went to restore another large boat???? You're awesome.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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todd brinkerhoff
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by todd brinkerhoff »

So how did folks get into Trojan? Did you seek out the brand, or fall into a specific boat and then caught the bug?

I didn't know anything about Trojan. I had a 25 foot Crownline and my wife and I started to do some short trips. We found the boat too small when we had guest. I mentioned to a friend that I was looking for a larger boat. He would help out a couple of charter boat captains and most of them had Trojan Internationals. That same friend said that he got his in-laws into Trojans and that they were looking to sell their "10 Meter" He didn't realize it was a 10.8 Meter.

I tried to find information on the 10.8 Meter EXPRESS, and couldn't find anything. Brought my wife to the boat, and she loved the size and layout. So we bought it based on my buddy's experience. It was shortly after that and talking to you guys that I found that I had a completely different boat than the rest of the Internationals. Felt like I was the orphan of the orphans. But, as I got to know the boat better, and continued my research, I found the story of this "newly" created model fascinating.

The boat has been great. But it's alway hard to see your same boat sit on yachtworld for years with no interest. Oh well, everyone else's loss.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by RWS »

Nice Bertram 33' for only $19,000

It's a 1985 model with 454's repowered in 1993

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Be ... _H3xlgg_cs


RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
todd brinkerhoff
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by todd brinkerhoff »

RWS wrote:Nice Bertram 33' for only $19,000

It's a 1985 model with 454's repowered in 1993

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Be ... _H3xlgg_cs


RWS
That may be worth flipping....
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327

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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by yorklyn »

Bertram, isn't that the company that made those awesome Trojan International hulls? :mrgreen:
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by RWS »

I suggest you google:

BERTRAM DELAMINATION



RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner
Survived Andrew Cat 5,Eye of Charley Cat 4, & Irma Cat 2
Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED
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gettaway
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by gettaway »

Todd,

I bought a 1977 Trojan F-32 that would become "LARK", she was an old, dirty and somewhat abandoned boat by her previous owner, who, I am told, went broke and couldn't afford her anymore. Dirty, chalky and tattered, she still surveyed well and the engines ran fine and the boat had that classic & great F series sport fish lines, So I bought her, pretty much for cents on the dollar. Once we got all of the crap from the previous owner off the boat, a half dozen or so initial "soft scrub" washes, the potential started to shine through.
Over the next three years we stripped her interior and exterior bright work, reupholstered every soft goon on the boat, cleaned and painted the bilges re plumbed the head and holding tank system, and installed a new teak swim step.
I then took on a re-power project that raised the eyebrows of almost every member of the TOF, I put in 80's vintage Mercruiser inline 6 cylinder 165's, the boat cruised at 12 knots at 4 gallons and hour, 20 knots wide WOT with three people and full fuel and water, the engine room and engines looked awesome

I loved the boat, didn't spend a lot of money on her and sold the boat in a day when I listed her for sale , I think she sold quickly for several reasons, one, she was priced right for the boat and the market, and she was clean, clean, clean, no personal crap, I ditched any outdated electronics, and the interior looked like a boat, not a Home Depot remodeled apartment.

My thought on your question is- does the boat do everything you want in a boat, would diesels really make your boating better? I would have loved to have re powered with diesels for the safety aspect alone, but there was no way possible to justify new diesels in a 30+ year old. A 70's vintage F - series is a $ 30,000 maximum -absolutely top value boat WITH DIESELS, a reman Cummins 5.9 long block is 20 K, then you have drive line, mounts , exhaust, coolers fuel tanks, etc etc etc......... X 2

I say if you love the boat, enjoy her, if you have the bug for a newer, bigger diesel boat, clean you boat stem to stern, price it right and sell it and buy a what your think you want.

by priced right, I use the theory of what would I be willing to pay for something (my boat) if I was looking to buy it, without the emotional attachment. Don't leave anything on the table, but don't have unrealistic expectations.

I can't stress this enough though, when you look at boats in the 30+ year old, in the 30 - 40' range, and in the less than the 30 to 40K$ range, you'll see a lot of "old looking" boats. Dark, Dirty, outdated simple things, like faucets, curtains, throw pillows, carpet and even furniture. These are all easy and inexpensive things to change, clean the bilges and tidy up the engines... if your boat looks and SMELLS clean .. she'll sell quickly
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Re: Is a Trojan a worthy brand to restore

Post by BobCT »

So this is a timely post. We had a local annual festival a few towns over with about 40 boats at the marina. Unsolicited, I had about ten people stop and work their way into a full "tour" of my boat over two days. The beam usually gets peoples attention plus all of the cockpit seating. I honestly felt like I could have sold the boat this weekend if I had a sign in the window.

At one point I was finishing up one tour of the cabin while my wife was working another couple on the outside. She made the handoff to me and I finished up! The comments about the boat itself and the work I've done made my ego even bigger. You can tell when people are making obligatory "hey that's nice" comments versus being over the top and that was clearly the case.

Maybe I'm out of mind but I think I could sell my boat in a few days but what could I replace it with? That's why it's not for sale :)
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