New guy looking to buy a F-26

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JimK
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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by JimK » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:52 am

Other boats in the Trojan line up that might fit your requirements would be the F28 and the F30. Both were available with single engines although the majority available seem to be twin engines. Any of these boats would have lots of room for a generator and marine AC especially in a single engine setup. If you are 6' or taller, you will quickly come to appreciate the extra headroom in the F28 or F30 as compared to the F26.

Regarding the AC requirement for an F26 you could consider an inverter to run it when you are away from shore. You would have batteries to deal with and would have limitations on how long you could operate it but it would be safer and possibly a better fit in terms of space in an F26. Xantrex has some good options.

Since you are open to options other than marine type AC units on an F26, you could consider a roof mount unit like those used on RV's. Headroom in the cabin of an F26 is limited so you would need to look at how far the control panel/ducting would intrude into the cabin. You would forever change the appearance of the boat but may have a more functional AC setup than rigging a window unit on your door.

You may already be aware, but there are also hatch mount carry-on units available. They can probably handle a cabin the size of an F26. You don't have to modify the boat but you need to move it around every time you want to use it.

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by MrWesson » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:09 pm

JimK wrote:Other boats in the Trojan line up that might fit your requirements would be the F28 and the F30. Both were available with single engines although the majority available seem to be twin engines. Any of these boats would have lots of room for a generator and marine AC especially in a single engine setup. If you are 6' or taller, you will quickly come to appreciate the extra headroom in the F28 or F30 as compared to the F26.

Regarding the AC requirement for an F26 you could consider an inverter to run it when you are away from shore. You would have batteries to deal with and would have limitations on how long you could operate it but it would be safer and possibly a better fit in terms of space in an F26. Xantrex has some good options.

Since you are open to options other than marine type AC units on an F26, you could consider a roof mount unit like those used on RV's. Headroom in the cabin of an F26 is limited so you would need to look at how far the control panel/ducting would intrude into the cabin. You would forever change the appearance of the boat but may have a more functional AC setup than rigging a window unit on your door.

You may already be aware, but there are also hatch mount carry-on units available. They can probably handle a cabin the size of an F26. You don't have to modify the boat but you need to move it around every time you want to use it.
Problem also being is supply. Not too many Trojans or any boats of similar quality/price point in my area(up to 300 miles). I'm a short guy and the F26 doesn't feel low to me.

After a couple days of research I think a small inverter generator is the way to go for me. Even with the inverter and 4 batteries I'd only be able to get a few hours of use out of a small ac.

I don't want to start a huge debate but they can be used safely and plenty of guys are happy with them. (plenty of C02 detectors too)

I've looked into roof mounted options and they can be had at a reasonable price. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the AC yet. I would be on the constant lookout for a proper permenant unit(probably used). Any option below will be a temp setup until the above permanent unit is found.

Option 1 5000btu in the door as pictured or using a $150 hatch adapter.
Pros
Simple
Cheap
doesn't need to be removed
Protected against water.

Cons
A bit ghetto looking
Would have to hack my door(big con). I would find a matching door to use probably.
Probably wont hold up(At $70 I dont really care).
With it around the hatch on the hatch adapter I think it would get beat to death from pounding.(still dont care though)

Option 2
A portable R2D2 looking unit.
Image
Pros
Cheap
Easy install(not one really).
Can stay in cabin
All of the pros of the window unit
Easy access inside
Can use at home in the garage after i'm done with it.
Cons
Takes up too much room.
Have to put intake hose outside somewhere(thinking window or hatch)

I actually like this idea because I would only go into the cabin to sleep and would keep it where the table is(remove it). Its only 2 of us onboard and think its workable.

Option 3
Krusin Kool portable Marine 7000btu AC
Pros
pulls raw water
Proper marine AC
Can be installed permanantly
Cons
Hard to find used
Expensive new(~$1,000)

I'd definitely be on the lookout for one of these but wouldn't want to spend more than $500 used. I think this could be an all around solution because I already have the plumbing for onboard AC.

I don't think a carry on or RV ac really provide any value to me over a window unit or free standing portable. They will cost quite a bit and get beat to death on the front of the boat as well.

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K4282
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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by K4282 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:42 pm

Owning similiar I can coment here. Before my F32, im actually on my third I had a 26 Silverton with a 318, basically the same boat but I think a larger beam. The single inboards have a couple draw backs, 1 being manuauvering, in reverse they pull to port side, no matter where you steer, your steering with a rudder not the prop so be prepared to move and think quickly how your boat will react. Also the natural rotation of the motors make the boat lean to port under way, trim tabs can help but kind of sucks. As far as the generator those Honda EU200 are awesome! lots of people around me use them even if they have a onboard genny, their super quite, one of my buddies has his on the swim patform, most people put them on the bow. If you stepped up to a F30 Clean Machine would be a nice in between the F32 and 26, but ill tell you for resell the F26 is easier because your opening up to a bigger market of potential buyers, i trailered my 26 twice a year, she was 26ft and 10.6 beam, not legal but I only went a couple miles, the new owner does the same, kept cost way down, he keeps it on a mooring now and loves it, has people offering to but it all the time. My opinon the boat is priced a little high, but is probably worth it if its as nice as you say.

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by JimK » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:57 pm

You have really done your homework.

I have never seen the Krusin Cool. That is an interesting setup.

Regarding the unit that sits on the floor, I was on an F26 that had a unit like this. The owner took out the corner of the dinette bench (where the short part of the bench meets the long part of the bench) and dropped the unit into the opening. It stuck out of the opening to a little higher than the table top. He ran the exhaust tube into the space under the gunnel and vented it to one of the louvered vents on the side of the boat. It pretty much eliminated using the dinette as a bed but it got the unit out of the way and left it in a manner that he could just walk on and use it, i.e. no setup.

Sounds like you know the F26 is the boat for you and you are pretty close to being sorted out on the AC options as well as how to power it away from shore. If you pull the trigger on getting an F26, the sponsor of this forum (Beacon Marina) can help you out with parts and manuals if you need anything.

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by ready123 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:58 pm

Your option two works well... a buddy uses three on his 46' trawler rather than replace 2 marineairs... of course space is a non issue for him.
The price from HD/Lowes made it a no brainer he said. They also work well and cool the space quickly and are quiet. He runs them on his house bank using Inverters... again he has the space for the large battery banks. His solar panels keep up of course he is in FL now heading south to Caribbean.
You will need to make sure you secure them when underway and think about the exhaust hose route.
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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by MrWesson » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:51 pm

K4282 wrote:Owning similiar I can coment here. Before my F32, im actually on my third I had a 26 Silverton with a 318, basically the same boat but I think a larger beam. The single inboards have a couple draw backs, 1 being manuauvering, in reverse they pull to port side, no matter where you steer, your steering with a rudder not the prop so be prepared to move and think quickly how your boat will react. Also the natural rotation of the motors make the boat lean to port under way, trim tabs can help but kind of sucks. As far as the generator those Honda EU200 are awesome! lots of people around me use them even if they have a onboard genny, their super quite, one of my buddies has his on the swim patform, most people put them on the bow. If you stepped up to a F30 Clean Machine would be a nice in between the F32 and 26, but ill tell you for resell the F26 is easier because your opening up to a bigger market of potential buyers, i trailered my 26 twice a year, she was 26ft and 10.6 beam, not legal but I only went a couple miles, the new owner does the same, kept cost way down, he keeps it on a mooring now and loves it, has people offering to but it all the time. My opinon the boat is priced a little high, but is probably worth it if its as nice as you say.
I'm thinking 7,000 or maybe slightly under. If I can come in and spend 8k after genny,inverter and AC I'll be happy. I will simply get rid of my other boat and pull the electronics off it and install(already prewired for my garmin w/ducer).

I've read about the prop steer on inboards like this. Not much I can do but to practice and carry good insurance. If purchased I would spend a day somewhere on the river(have a place in mind) with parking maneuvers. Being able to park the boat and depart alone is a must. I'll probably keep and eye out for a bow thruster but if I can handle it as is.... Its a 26' boat after all.

Some people picture a nasty gangly 2 stroke gen when they hear portable generator. Being an idiot will get you killed in a bunch of ways. These things are very quiet and versatile. I asked a charter captain today about his and he says he uses it like a genset with a splash guard, runs it while underway and has about 1100 hours on his.
JimK wrote:You have really done your homework.

I have never seen the Krusin Cool. That is an interesting setup.

Regarding the unit that sits on the floor, I was on an F26 that had a unit like this. The owner took out the corner of the dinette bench (where the short part of the bench meets the long part of the bench) and dropped the unit into the opening. It stuck out of the opening to a little higher than the table top. He ran the exhaust tube into the space under the gunnel and vented it to one of the louvered vents on the side of the boat. It pretty much eliminated using the dinette as a bed but it got the unit out of the way and left it in a manner that he could just walk on and use it, i.e. no setup.

Sounds like you know the F26 is the boat for you and you are pretty close to being sorted out on the AC options as well as how to power it away from shore. If you pull the trigger on getting an F26, the sponsor of this forum (Beacon Marina) can help you out with parts and manuals if you need anything.
The Crusin cool has the advantage of being small(they call them briefcase AC's).
Image

If I buy a free standing unit from HD I can just return it if I don't like it. I'm leaning this direction at the moment. Was going to go give the boat another thorough looking over with a flashlight and go out in my fishing boat today but the battery in my tow rig is dead :evil: . There's always tomorrow.

Still undecided about the survey.

The survey was actually done by the owner of the marina(owner defaulted on the boat/signed over title). He sold the boat to the current owner, wanted to make sure it was okay(friend of current owner/myself), make sure nothing was going to come back to him(he is a boat retailer,marina owner(large one) and has other business in the area, he is a licensed surveyor, and I trust him. I plan on asking him about the boat tomorrow. Of course that was in Oct and things can happen.

Still working on the misses but I think shes just about ready to cave.
ready123 wrote:Your option two works well... a buddy uses three on his 46' trawler rather than replace 2 marineairs... of course space is a non issue for him.
The price from HD/Lowes made it a no brainer he said. They also work well and cool the space quickly and are quiet. He runs them on his house bank using Inverters... again he has the space for the large battery banks. His solar panels keep up of course he is in FL now heading south to Caribbean.
You will need to make sure you secure them when underway and think about the exhaust hose route.
I would probably weld up a bracket(or use starboard) and secure it to the deck(using 4200 on the screws).

After some research most people have similar experiences and like them alot. That being said you have to be careful to match one up with the small gen because they can draw alot of amps when starting up(im sure you know this). From what I've read the ones with only one hose(intake) dont work very well.

Finding the right venting/exhaust/mounting shouldn't be hard. Just a question of how much space I would be giving up and if I actually would miss the space.

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by K4282 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:20 pm

I also wanted to add as far as FWC and RWC motors we have both up North here in salt water only, rwc offers less pluming, just do the manifolds and risors avery 5 years or so, no problem, your water is warmer you may need to do more frequently. My last 3 F32s only one was FWC, my silverton wasm i had an imperial with 305's that was RWC, its no big deal, as far as AC I have never owned a boat with AC myself so I have no comments there. I handled my 26 with now problem myself, my F32 is easier obviously...bow thrusters are expensive and the older boat really isnt worht the investment IMO, stern thrusters are cheaper but dont work as well I dont think

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by MrWesson » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:17 pm

K4282 wrote:I also wanted to add as far as FWC and RWC motors we have both up North here in salt water only, rwc offers less pluming, just do the manifolds and risors avery 5 years or so, no problem, your water is warmer you may need to do more frequently. My last 3 F32s only one was FWC, my silverton wasm i had an imperial with 305's that was RWC, its no big deal, as far as AC I have never owned a boat with AC myself so I have no comments there. I handled my 26 with now problem myself, my F32 is easier obviously...bow thrusters are expensive and the older boat really isnt worht the investment IMO, stern thrusters are cheaper but dont work as well I dont think
I wonder how much it will be affected running from salt and back through fresh on every trip(except for sleeping at sandbars)...

I'm having a hard time finding other F26's but the ones I have found support a price between 6000-7000. I even found one for 5000 with AC.. no genset,vdrive,80% condition(compared to the other one) and missing helm chairs. NADA says 5700-6500. I am going to come well prepared with like ads and all the info I can if I make an offer.

I cant find much over 8k.. I found 2 one being just plain overpriced and the other @ 11k fully loaded(radar,hardtop,rebuild,Genset,AC,Autopilot, you name it).

I also found one with a similar AC setup that I would like to install. Its a newer F26 though and either they did some hacking to fit it or its just the layout.
Image

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by The Dog House » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:19 pm

There's been a lot of good information posted already. I'll add my experience/views after living with a Trojan F26 for three years.

1. A Trojan F26 for $6,000 is the best deal you can find if you are looking for a cabin boat. A new cabin boat of this size would cost over $200,000.

2. The air conditioner in the corner of the dinette is a good setup and will cool the boat very well when connected to shore power at the dock. Batteries and an inverter are safe and will work for a short period of time when away from shore power. Portable generators are not safe due to lack of spark protection and suffocation issues and there is no room to install a fixed marine generator. If you purchase an F26, plan on being a little warm if you are away from shore power. Please do not use a portable generator.

3. An F26 is a 4 person boat. The cockpit is small and only holds 4 adults comfortably. Do not have anyone in the cabin when underway, because the "station wagon effect" draws exhaust into the cabin when the boat is underway. I have a CO detector in the cabin and it goes off often when we are underway. It is too dangerous to have people in the cabin when the boat is underway.

4. A single screw inboard like the F26 has very little manuevarability in reverse. This can be compensated for by using spring lines when docking the boat and when leaving the dock. Using spring lines, however, requires a crew of 2. While it may be possible to single hand a F26, I would venture that for the large majority of boaters a second person will be necessary in order to dock confidently in all conditions.

If you can purchase the boat you are looking at for $6,000, I think it will be a very good deal, but only if the boat will fulfill your needs. Given what you said, I'm not sure a F26 will fulfill your needs.
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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by MrWesson » Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:10 pm

2. The air conditioner in the corner of the dinette is a good setup and will cool the boat very well when connected to shore power at the dock. Batteries and an inverter are safe and will work for a short period of time when away from shore power. Portable generators are not safe due to lack of spark protection and suffocation issues and there is no room to install a fixed marine generator. If you purchase an F26, plan on being a little warm if you are away from shore power. Please do not use a portable generator.
I agree it CAN be dangerous but with the redundancy of a few carbon monixide detectors, Either running it on a swim platform or venting exhaust to the water level, Anchoring from the bow so that wind takes it downwind, and that alot of people on the internet and that I know personally have done it(some safer than others). I'd suggest reading about the honda eu2000 specifically for some feedback.

I appreciate what you are trying to say but wish me the best because I'm going to do it :mrgreen: .
3. An F26 is a 4 person boat. The cockpit is small and only holds 4 adults comfortably. Do not have anyone in the cabin when underway, because the "station wagon effect" draws exhaust into the cabin when the boat is underway. I have a CO detector in the cabin and it goes off often when we are underway. It is too dangerous to have people in the cabin when the boat is underway.
Great advice.

When you are running do you have the front hatch closed and it still went off?

I had 4 people on my 17' center console last weekend.. I guess you guys have differing opinions on space lol. I'd think that with a few bean bags you'd be able to get 5-6 for a boat ride in the aft cockpit. Once anchored alot of space opens up on the front of the boat for the ladies to lay out, the cabin and the rear for relaxing.
4. A single screw inboard like the F26 has very little manuevarability in reverse. This can be compensated for by using spring lines when docking the boat and when leaving the dock. Using spring lines, however, requires a crew of 2. While it may be possible to single hand a F26, I would venture that for the large majority of boaters a second person will be necessary in order to dock confidently in all conditions.
This is a concern. I'd bet that 40% of the time it will be just me on the boat. I'm sure I could devise a system but I'll do some research on this as well.

My marina is very protected, covered, and in the river if that matters.
If you can purchase the boat you are looking at for $6,000, I think it will be a very good deal, but only if the boat will fulfill your needs. Given what you said, I'm not sure a F26 will fulfill your needs.
[/quote]

Not sure I can get it down to that price but who knows.

Why specifically don't you think it wont work for me?

I know I mentioned having 6 on the boat but that would be rare. It would mostly be my wife and I. The alternative is a cuddy cabin single outboard boat around 23'. I know people with dual engine 30+ boats like them and want to recommend them but it just isn't going to happen right now.

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by The Dog House » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:31 pm

MrWesson wrote:

When you are running do you have the front hatch closed and it still went off?

I had 4 people on my 17' center console last weekend.. I guess you guys have differing opinions on space lol. I'd think that with a few bean bags you'd be able to get 5-6 for a boat ride in the aft cockpit. Once anchored alot of space opens up on the front of the boat for the ladies to lay out, the cabin and the rear for relaxing.

This is a concern. I'd bet that 40% of the time it will be just me on the boat. I'm sure I could devise a system but I'll do some research on this as well.

My marina is very protected, covered, and in the river if that matters.

Why specifically don't you think it wont work for me?

I know I mentioned having 6 on the boat but that would be rare. It would mostly be my wife and I. The alternative is a cuddy cabin single outboard boat around 23'. I know people with dual engine 30+ boats like them and want to recommend them but it just isn't going to happen right now.
I run with the front hatch closed. Running with the front hatch open would negate the station wagon effect, but I don't think the hatch mechanism would stand up to the bouncing of the boat over the waves. Maybe it would, but with a 44 year old boat I tend to baby it. Parts are not always easy to come by.

You can probably get 6 people in the cockpit, but I doubt it would be comfortable. Whether it is doable I guess depends on you and your guests. If you take the boat out for a sea trial, try running it with 6 people in the cockpit so you can make an informed decision.

Trojan F26 boats will turn to port in reverse and will back straight in reverse. No matter what you do, they will not turn to starboard in reverse. Also, these boats only have a 5 degree deadrise and a lot of windage. The wind will be the predominant force during docking maneuvers. If the wind is blowing you onto the dock during a docking maneuver, 1 person can do it. If the wind is blowing you off the dock during a docking maneuver, I have not seen 1 person dock a single screw inboard successfully. If the wind is blowing off the dock, I gently put my bow onto the dock at a 45 degree angle and have my crew on the foredeck put a bow aft spring line on a cleat. I then turn the wheel away from the dock and go forward at idle speed. Since the bow can not move forward, the stern swings into the dock. This is an easy maneuver but requires 2 people.

A Trojan F26 is a great boat for a couple to live on. If you and your wife want to spend time on the boat and take another couple out with you, a Trojan F26 would work well. These boats are not "party barges", however. If you are looking for a boat to take 8 people out for the day, a 23 foot cuddy cabin is a better choice. My previous boat was a Four Winns 245 cuddy cabin, and it would seat 8 people comfortably in the cockpit. That boat was 1/3 cabin and 2/3 cockpit. A Trojan F26 is 2/3 cabin and 1/3 cockpit. If you plan on taking 4 -5 people out at a time and your wife is willing to work the spring lines, the F26 would be a very good boat for you. If you want to take more people out than that or want to single hand, get a boat with a bigger cockpit and an outboard/sterndrive. I could easily single hand my Four Winns 245. I wouldn't even think of single handing my F26. FYI, I'm a retired USCGAUX coxswain with over 20 years experience driving boats, so I have experience driving. I do tend to be a bit cautious, however, because of some of the things I've seen, so factor that into the equation. Good luck with your decision.
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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by bigdave603 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:38 pm

When you consider the differences between F26 and F32 the twin engines on theF32 are much easier to dock and manuver. In my opinion the increased safety of twins is worth every gal. of extra gas used.

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by K4282 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:50 pm

Like I said before and DOG HOUSE agreed the reverse maneuvers will take getting used too. I pulled into a slip if i was worried, the single inboard still go straight forward lol. As for reverse I never did any of that spring line set up, with some quick maneuvering of the wheel, throttle and transmission and knowing how my boat would react I got in and out of many tight areas, 9 out of 10 times on my own, I don't like to rely on help, but that's just me. My F32 I could pick someone's nose with the twin engine maneuverability! So much better than a single. When I had my single inboard my home dock I pulled up starboard side, when leaving I cut the wheel all the way to the right and went into reverse some, then forward without every touching the wheel, this worked well to back out and do a 180, well not quite but you get the idea. He did not mention how the rotation of the motor will make it lean port when underway, for the record I usually always had side windows open and never front hatch, that was never really used on mine, the pic below is a friend and me, he's sitting starboard side and I'm center, boats running about 26 knots/ 30 mph, she was a project boat and trim tabs didn't work at the time, good trim tabs would helpImage

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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by ready123 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:03 am

I single hand my F32 frequently in an out of the slip and out to anchorages. I also tow a 14' runabout as my dinghy which I use to return to the marina to pickup my wife when she arrives having secured the prime anchorage midweek. I still maintain you will be better off starting with an F32....... you will likely want to keep it for several years as it is really a good platform for staying on for weekends and such!
Image

Chillin on the weekend..
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Re: New guy looking to buy a F-26

Post by prowlersfish » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:47 am

While many of use feel the F26 may not be enough boat for the OP needs . My only reserve is the lack of room for a proper generator ( I still believe it was done by someone here ). As far as a F32 being a better choice ,maybe . The F32 is a lot more boat its at least twice the boat a F26 is . And the maybe to much boat for the op as it would be for others . It is more up keep and maintenance ,and expense . ( slip /fuel paint / haul out ect. ) The concern of fuel burn is legit but not because it has twin engines but because its a lot more boat to push .


As far as the single vs twin there is pros and cons both ways . There is a slightly less fuel use on a single but so slight it should not be a issue . The boat it self is the big factor . Twins cost more to maintain then a single but offer a way to get home (slowly) but there is seatow too . Twins can be easier to dock . But a single is not that bad , I have owned many and ran them up to 55' with out issue docking . You just have to understand what it will and won't do . My next boat could very well be a single .

Choosing a boat is a personal choice . What suits me may not work for others . I have my must haves like Gen, AC Diesel , for others it maybe twins and a min / max size and of course for all the $$$$$

Just my 2 cents looking at both sides
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