Teak Deck Refinish

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RonW
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Teak Deck Refinish

Post by RonW » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:52 pm

Hi everyone. I'm new to Trojan but I grew up on Starcraft, Chris Craft and Botved. Once out of school, I went up the chain of offshore performance boats, Scarab, Cigarette, Excalibur, but I have always known that someday I would have an F44 Trojan FBMY. Well, last spring, I went from 70 mph to 12, and loving it. I bought a 1975 from the original owner. It is in amazingly well loved condition and it will carry on this way.
Now my question. The teak decks are in very good condition but need refinishing. I am going to scrape and sand down to bare wood. My apologies to the "au naturels" out there, but I don't want to use oil. I also have not had a lot of luck with Cetol, even when following their directions precisely.
I want to go with a low gloss varnish, but I don't know which one. I've been asking around.......Wow, there's a lot of opinions out there and on the net.
So now I'm here with the experts.
I know I need 10 coats, some with thinners. Any suggestions from captains that have had good or bad results would greatly be appreciated. The boat is shrink wrapped and I'm planning the work in early April, hopefully warm enough under the shrink wrap.

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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by bjanakos » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:39 pm

Welcome aboard Captain Ron!

I think most the the opinions will be either Cetol or Natural Oil (and re-oil, and re-oil, etc). I have also had a lot of luck with Helmsman. If you are doing any teak outside, I would recommend the Cetol for durability sake and if you want to save a few bucks, use the Helmsman in the cabin.

You may not seed to sand all the way down to bare wood. A good level scuff is all you really need. I would try a small area in an inconspicuous place first before I do all that work. Then again, if you don't know what products were previously used, it may not be a bad idea.

I would wait until you get the shrink wrap off and above 50 degree temps at night to apply it. Not sure of the volatility of Cetol and aside from dangerous fumes, you will need a fresh supply of air to have it cure.

Good luck! And let us know how your project turns out.

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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by lawyerdave71 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:01 am

RonW wrote: My apologies to the "au naturels" out there, but I don't want to use oil..
LOL LOL

Love Watco teak oil that stuff is the bomb!
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by Paul » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:53 am

RonW wrote:I want to go with a low gloss varnish, but I don't know which one
Welcome aboard Capt Ron,

One thing that you should keep in mind when choosing and applying a new finish to your deck is traction. Although a gloss or low gloss finishes look great on a deck, when that deck is wet it's a slip and fall waiting to happen. Personally on decks, ladders, swim platforms, etc, I would choose Cetol (whichever shade) without the clear top coat. When done properly it will last years. I've always found that after sanding the teak, it's important to wipe it down with reducer in order to remove the teak's natural oils in order to gain adhesion of the finish.

Hope this helps,
Paul
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by jimbo36 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:28 pm

Paul wrote:
RonW wrote:I want to go with a low gloss varnish, but I don't know which one
Welcome aboard Capt Ron,

One thing that you should keep in mind when choosing and applying a new finish to your deck is traction. Although a gloss or low gloss finishes look great on a deck, when that deck is wet it's a slip and fall waiting to happen. Personally on decks, ladders, swim platforms, etc, I would choose Cetol (whichever shade) without the clear top coat. When done properly it will last years. I've always found that after sanding the teak, it's important to wipe it down with reducer in order to remove the teak's natural oils in order to gain adhesion of the finish.

Hope this helps,
+1 on this. I have used Cetol on many boat decks over the years. The #1 reason for failure is not doing the wipe down before applying the first coat. (I use acetone) Also, never thin Cetol. #2 is not enough initial coats (8 is my advice) #3 repair any damaged areas immediately (this is the main reason for 8 coats) and light sand (220) and a re-coat every 2 seasons. This process will guarantee a well maintained teak deck that will just get better looking over the years.

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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by 1967 seavoyager » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:45 pm

Use Sikkens Door & Window #003 You'll love it.
They'll pry a rotten plank from my cold dead fingers before i go "Tupperware". http://www.photobucket.com/restless
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by 1967 seavoyager » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:15 pm

Don't sand the teak. It's only 1/8" think when new. Buy a brass bristle gas grill brush & scrub with comet. Rinse well & when dry put a couple coats of door & window. Put it on thick, it'll be great. The natural color of the teak will show.
They'll pry a rotten plank from my cold dead fingers before i go "Tupperware". http://www.photobucket.com/restless
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by ready123 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:38 pm

Don't sand Teak.
Use varnish remover to get present coating off, let it soak then use a wood or plastic scraper to get the gum off. Then I use Teak cleaners, I like Amazon 2 part cleaner.
I like my teak decks to be natural, so I just wash them regularly to get dirt off before getting into the grain and leave them alone untreated. In the tropics they take on a nice grey colour when washed with salt water.
Now my other teak trim I do clean (Amazon 2 part) and use natural Cetol, 5-7 coats initially then add one or two each year, cleaning and light sand (high grit) first.

If you have any black spots the Amazon brush and two part cleaner will get it off.... regular cleaning and dry mopping will make the natural teak look good for years.
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by ready123 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:20 am

This is what natural teak decks should look like.
Attachments
teak decks.jpg
teak decks.jpg (123.56 KiB) Viewed 3505 times
Michael
Rum is the reason Pirate's have never ruled the world
Done Dreamin'
1987 President 43' Twin Lehman 225SP Turbo
Highfield 310 Ally 15 HP Yamaha 2cycle
1978 F32 Sedan twin 318 Chry SOLD
Safe Cove Marina, Port Charlotte, FL

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RonW
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by RonW » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:46 pm

Thank you everyone for the Welcome and the experienced advice.
I want to respond to each of the comments.

I love the look the natural teak (hey.... that's a sail boat) but we get a lot of soot in the rain in Toronto which creates terrible black streaks that are hard to get off fibreglass and I'm afraid it would stain natural wood very quickly.

I'm afraid that varnish remover will remove the black caulking stripes between the planks. This happened to me on my last boat but luckily, only in a test spot. Same reason I'm afraid to use a heat gun which was also recommended (by a Captain that has teak trim, not decks).

OK... I'm convinced..... Sikkens Door and Window #003 seems to be the way to go with a wipe down after sanding and no thinning, 8 - 10 coats.

I was planning to make an opening in the shrinkwrap at the bow with a fan to have a gent flow of air from the aft to keep fumes away from faces. It's well into the season before it will stay above 50F at night, so unfortunately I can't wait that long.

Thanks again everyone
Ron
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by jimbo36 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:31 pm

Hi Ron, yes I did. Glad to hear that awesome 44 is getting looked after. I have never used the Sikkens Door and Window #003 personally. I always use marine finishes on my projects. I checked the MSDS and compared it to Cetol and there is a difference. Looks like more UV properties with Cetol Marine. All the best with your project. By the way I am no longer at Bay Moorings. I have returned to Belleville. So if you cruise our way look us up. Jimbo36.

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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by Captain Chill » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:57 am

I have this project coming up soon myself (few weeks). You could gather up the good info and advice on this thread and then I'll be the guinea pig and try it out with the best product reviews.
'The Pacific Chill' - F26 -1976

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RonW
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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by RonW » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:41 am

Hi Jimbo

I'll post this question rather than a personal email because others might want to know the answer. I know that you have been around a lot of Trojans and wood on other boats.

My last boat had a 2 teak lay-in sections in the swim platform, one port and one starboard, fully exposed all summer. A few years ago, I bought Marine Cetol "finish" and applied 6 coats and it looked terrible after the first year. That's when I realized that it was a 2 part system. So the next year, after sanding again, following directions, I applied 3 coats of "primer' and 3 coats of "finish" to the port section and, to compare, 6 coats of Spar Vanish on the starboard side. After 3 years they both looked the same (and very good). So that's what turned me off Cetol. The varnish was simple, and I figured I could touch up easily since all 6 coats were the same.
The Sikken Door and Window Cetol #003 appears to be a one part, and 2 Captains have mentioned it on this post. Is the "Marine Cetol" a one part system too ?
I want the clear look of the wood which I don't think the Marine Cetol provides. Within 5 miles of my boat, there are 5 other F44s with teak decks and they all have a dull dark brown finish (you can barely see the black caulking stripes) and I don't like that look. As you know, my decks look like 123ready's sailboat (except a little glossier). From the web, it appears that the #003 Clear will give me that look. I don't mind an annual recoat if the UV protection isn't quite as good.
I would really appreciate your further input.
(Last fall, I actually called you at Bay M and was surprised to find you weren't there).

Ron

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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by jimbo36 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:06 am

Cetol vs varnishes vs teak oil each have their own followers. For me Cetol has always provided me with what I feel is the best alternative. Easy to apply, holds up well, UV protection, satin non-slip finish and has had several improvements over the years. The newest "Next Generation" Marine Cetol (New Wave) contains more UV absorbing technology (resins and pigments) and provides a flexable and breathable finish. These qualities are what differentiates "marine" Cetol from the Door and Window products. There is a reason they are more expensive. When I started using Cetol, too many years ago to discuss, it came as one product being the original cetol. Due to it's "orange" coloring that some skippers did not like, they came out with Cetol Teak and Cetol Light. Cetol Gloss can ONLY be applied on top of Cetol for a shiny finish but cannot be applied to the bare wood. Original Cetol is what is on your decks now Ron. John, the PO, had the teak decks recoated every spring by the marina staff (I was told) however, discontinued this for the last 4-5 years. ?? Had he continued this practice the decks would likely still be in great shape today. The only down side is after multiple coats over the years the decks will naturally get darker. However, the cetol becomes more resistant to chipping which, in my opinion is the problem with varnishes that tend to be harder (and more brittle) over time. As you can see on your boat, moisture has penetrated through the finish (usually from a scratch or ding) and migrates under the finish. That is when completely stripping down to bare wood is the only way to fix things. Needless to say, doing the job right and diligent maintenance recoating is key.

You describe your previous experience with Cetol as a 2 part process. It is only 2 part if you want a gloss finish (as stated above). There is no "primer" for Cetol.

How do you plan on stripping the old Cetol? Heat gun, chemical, sanding?

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Re: Teak Deck Refinish

Post by RonW » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:53 pm

Exiting Murray Canal.JPG
Exiting Murray Canal.JPG (179.16 KiB) Viewed 3425 times
Hi Jimbo

I think that my original mistake with Cetol was putting 3 coats of the gloss finish on bare wood.
My main concern for this boat is to keep the light colour of the wood (see picture attached taken in June 2015 arriving on Lake Ontario). I look in the can of Cetol and it looks like mud colour.
I was told by the original owner (John) that it is not Cetol on the decks and this was confirmed by his best friend (Arden). Neither could remember what it was. It might have been touched up with Cetol in the past 5 years as John was not able to do the work in his senior years.
However, I've got to trust your experience (and the others on this post). Luckily, it's only a few spots that the water has gotten underneath, but that is also why I want to start from clean bare wood.
As in my previous post, I'm worried about using a heat gun or chemical paint stripper since I'm afraid that they will remove the black caulking...... unless you tell me they won't. I was planning to use a paint scraper and sanding. The boat came with a belt sander and a vibrating sander, so I sorta took the hint.

Ron

PS... the ripples on the cabin top is actually a white cover that goes over the front bench seating, just pulled back for the afternoon (if the picture isn't there, it's because I don't know what I'm doing).

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