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Top rail ideas ?

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:33 pm
by gordd
Hi everyone . I would like to change way stanchion rails are bolted down and not quite sure what good way of going about it . Idea that keeps going thru my head is putting wood under it(not sure proper term ( top rail or rubrail ) . What would be best way of adding that 5200 and rail screws or something else?
Bow2.jpg
current
Bow2.jpg (22.07 KiB) Viewed 1594 times

this is current pic . Would also like to add piece of mahogany or teak , width of hatch from hatch to front . same would it be better just 5200 it on top or do a cut out and place it in cut out ?
1977_trojan_30_2 resised2.jpg
like this
1977_trojan_30_2 resised2.jpg (27.66 KiB) Viewed 1594 times
Second pic with arrow is kind of look am looking for.

Re: Top rail ideas ?

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:02 pm
by P-Dogg
Why the rail change?

Regarding the new teak or mahogany piece, I would definitely not cut the deck. I recommend that the new board be surface-mounted and through-bolted, with a proper epoxy fill around any holes that you make in the core, and backing proper backing plates under the deck. I like 1/2" fiberglass sheet from McMaster-Carr, or 3/4 " plywood soaked in thinned epoxy, then covered with un-thinned epoxy (drill all of the holes first). You will likely need shims between the deck and the new wood.

Tip for working with new railing and stanchions: Mount a couple of critical stanchions, for example (but not necessarily) the front-most and rear-most. Bend the rail so that it passes through the critical stanchions, and then form to fit the new desired shape and location. Make temporary intermediate stanchions* from wood to hold railing at desired height and location, then mount permanent stanchions, locating the stanchion mounting positions by using the rail as the datum and working downward . The position of the top of the stanchion relative to the base mounting location can be manipulated by carefully sanding a little bit off the bottom of the stanchion mount - keep the bottom flat but make it a different angle than factory. A change of 1 degree moves the top 0.52" if it is 30" away. I, ahem, hear this is especially useful if, for example, you've drilled holes in the deck and then find out that they are almost in the right place..... You can also steer the top of the stanchion to some degree by paying attention to the order in which you tight the stanchion base bolts. If your railing has a hard upper rail and a lower cable lifeline and you find that the stanchion needs to be rotated to get the top rail supported, your cable hole may no longer be parallel to the top rail. This can be fixed by cutting the stanchion between the base and the lifeline hole, marking the relative angle change, and re-welding the stanchion. The weld can be polished in a drill press with some wet sandpaper. The point of all this is, let the tail wag the dog. You will find it very difficult to make hard railing make nice, gentle, eye-pleasing bends if you mount the all of the stanchions first. Label each stanchion with its location. Okay, so that's a couple of tips.



* Not a stanchion, really. All you really need is a properly supported level board a couple of feet long. This will hold the new rail at height while you form it to the new shape.

Re: Top rail ideas ?

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:34 pm
by prowlersfish
I have to ask basically the same question Why change the rail mounting ? .

Re: Top rail ideas ?

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:47 pm
by gordd
P-Dogg wrote:Why the rail change?
prowlersfish wrote:I have to ask basically the same question Why change the rail mounting ? .
side resized.jpg
side
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According to survey side deck ( not sure of proper term) have moisture in them so will have to replace core eventually . Front and top decks port side showed still bit of moisture after being done. They not really soft to worry about at moment but should be done . Gentleman that did work on them and my mentor passed away around Christmas so he wont be redoing repair and I feel I can . I think teak or other proper wood top rail looks nice and would give the boat just right amount of little break from just boring white fiberglass look . More or less trim work . I have partial trim that was on boat before and that was just screwed in . For under stanchion not sure if different method is used and or preferred .Ya its work but I think would be satisfying when finished .
exmpl2.jpg
exmpl
exmpl2.jpg (22.01 KiB) Viewed 1556 times
like this pic those little wood pieces have 3 screws each In them

Re: Top rail ideas ?

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:20 pm
by gordd
Ty P-Dogg for incite .. kind of found something on you tube . It doesn't have the trim piece instructional but its close . Some one else may find it interesting for their projects as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TOHwrkw4NQ

Re: Top rail ideas ?

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:56 pm
by ready123
gordd wrote: According to survey side deck ( not sure of proper term) have moisture in them so will have to replace core eventually . Front and top decks port side showed still bit of moisture after being done. They not really soft to worry about at moment but should be done . Gentleman that did work on them and my mentor passed away around Christmas so he wont be redoing repair and I feel I can . I think teak or other proper wood top rail looks nice and would give the boat just right amount of little break from just boring white fiberglass look . More or less trim work . I have partial trim that was on boat before and that was just screwed in . For under stanchion not sure if different method is used and or preferred .Ya its work but I think would be satisfying when finished .
I doubt your stanchions are the cause of your problems in the deck. The likely cause is from all the items up near the bow that go through the deck including the hatch. If the stanchions are loose then they should be rebedded, try Butyl-L and make sure you have good backing plates.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

It sounds like some repairs were done already and now getting bad. Is this correct? How well was the initial work done? Was all wet core removed? Any wet core left behind will just continue to break down and attack adjacent good core without the addition of new water!

This is how decks should be repaired:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/trojanf32 ... 8792002787

Re: Top rail ideas ?

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:50 pm
by gordd
ready123 wrote:I doubt your stanchions are the cause of your problems in the deck. The likely cause is from all the items up near the bow that go through the deck including the hatch. If the stanchions are loose then they should be rebedded, try Butyl-L and make sure you have good backing plates.
Ty ready123 . Deck was done proper and all the hardware placed properly . Gentleman that did most of work knew what he was doing and owned the repair shop . that being said just the front part of deck was done starboard side and half of middle deck . as he felt rest should be ok. Sides were not done . Doubt its stanchions as well more " spider cracks" at different spots . I have chance to stock up on some materials as most of things in his shop is being sold of . Like cans of resin woven fibercloth material perhaps some balsa core and different type of woods.. I know its a big undertaking but think will give it a shot. How many gallon cans of west sytem would be required aprox . and or cloth ? its not that bad but if do open up cpl sections mite as well do all of it. Teak and mahogany inserts would be just like trim highlights. Thank you again