10 Meter Mid Cabin "Refresh"

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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

oil&water wrote:Man, do I ever feel your pain. I'm digging goo out of my forward deck. It's a mess and a nasty job. Your's is certainly more complicated since you cannot use a vacuum to extract the rotted pulp. Once you get the wood out, the replacement stringer epoxied into place, and the glass back over, it will be done and ready to enjoy.

Yeah it's nasty in there for sure. I'm hoping it evaporates a little over the next couple days, now that its cut open. I just had a nice chat with Bob at Beacon. Between everyone on here, Bob and of course Todd, i'm feeling much more confident.

Now, I just have to get this pesky little thing called a "job" out of the way and I can finish this project!
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by P-Dogg »

If you got this far, you can do the rest of the glass by yourself. Gudgeon brothers has like a 400 page book on glasswork that you can get for free in pdf form off the InterWeb. Read. Study. Visualize. Perform. Oh, and youtube, with a grain of salt.

Don't skimp on proper tools, like tiny ribbed rollers for pressing the layup together, and proper Safety gear. I have a full-face powered respirator, with air supplied from 50 ft away. That way I can get into the work and not worry about epoxy or polyester fumes when doing layups, or airborne glass fibers when doing demo work.

All too often I see folks, even in a DIY repair article in Sail magazine, who simply butt the new stringer up to the old one. You'll want to make sure that the stresses can gradually get from the old portion of the stringer to the new portion. A scarf is best, but a long half-lap is a close second. The point is that you don't want to create a stress discontinuity.

It looks like you are on stands? Take extra care to ensure that the boat is blocked level, and with enough stands. You sure don't want to rebuild twist into the hull. If faced with this work myself, I would seriously consider doing it in the water.

If you continue to document the work like you have been, with annotated pictures and running commentary, you will be creating a very useful resource for those that follow you.

Good luck!
I needed a less expensive hobby, so I bought a boat!
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

P-Dogg wrote:If you got this far, you can do the rest of the glass by yourself. Gudgeon brothers has like a 400 page book on glasswork that you can get for free in pdf form off the InterWeb. Read. Study. Visualize. Perform. Oh, and youtube, with a grain of salt.

Don't skimp on proper tools, like tiny ribbed rollers for pressing the layup together, and proper Safety gear. I have a full-face powered respirator, with air supplied from 50 ft away. That way I can get into the work and not worry about epoxy or polyester fumes when doing layups, or airborne glass fibers when doing demo work.

All too often I see folks, even in a DIY repair article in Sail magazine, who simply butt the new stringer up to the old one. You'll want to make sure that the stresses can gradually get from the old portion of the stringer to the new portion. A scarf is best, but a long half-lap is a close second. The point is that you don't want to create a stress discontinuity.

It looks like you are on stands? Take extra care to ensure that the boat is blocked level, and with enough stands. You sure don't want to rebuild twist into the hull. If faced with this work myself, I would seriously consider doing it in the water.

If you continue to document the work like you have been, with annotated pictures and running commentary, you will be creating a very useful resource for those that follow you.

Good luck!

Thanks P Dogg. The boat is on stands right now because I have the motors out. I wouldn't feel comfortable putting it back in the water just to do this work.

I'm supposed to meet up with a local marine fiberglass repair guy tomorrow to take a look at it. While I'm sure I could do the work with some help, I'm running out of time. Work has me out of town every week from Monday until Thursday.

I'll look up that book you mentioned and keep you all posted! Thank you again.
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by P-Dogg »

I also found this when I looked further: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/How ... enance.pdf


And here is the Gougeon book in PDF: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/How ... 061205.pdf

It makes perfect sense to contract-out this type of work, which is advice I very rarely take myself. Regardless, what do you want to do, fix a boat, or go boating? That said, if you read-up and educate yourself, you can talk sensibly to your contractor. If you go that route, have him take pics!

What are you going to do with your old tank? I hope that you can do something fun with it. When I replaced my water tank, and made a crab pot out of it. Last pic in this post:http://www.trojanboats.net/wforum/viewt ... ter#p82312
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

Well, my original plan was to have this tank repaired. I figured it could be easily patched and welded. I guess that may not actually be the best route to go...
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
oil&water
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by oil&water »

I have had several aluminum tanks welded up post leak. You are probably looking at having a new piece welded across the entire bottom. Finding a shop that will take it on is the challenge.
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

oil&water wrote:I have had several aluminum tanks welded up post leak. You are probably looking at having a new piece welded across the entire bottom. Finding a shop that will take it on is the challenge.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. My buddy works at a local high end marina and he has a co-worker there that is a welder. He said he would be willing to do the repair for me. So that's good news. Now, I just have to get him to do it quickly!
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

This is only a fraction of what was inside my fuel tank. Is that the result of ethanol? Im assuming it clumped up when i washed it out with dawn and water...

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Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

This is hard to see, but it corroded from the inside out...

Image

Image
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by BobCT »

Wow, that's a lot of holes. Stating the obvious but at least you already had the engines out. Are you doing both tanks? I'm curious to see what the other one looks like.... I have mentally prepared myself for this at some point.

I can walk you through the intake rework when you get to that point. Do you still think this was the root cause or was it water inside the tank. Todd reinstalled his original tanks and said they checked out fine.

So the gas must have leaked into the limber hole and soaked into the stringer. It probably didn't matter though since water was probably doing the same long before the gas.

This has to be the worst feeling in the world. I'm sure you have run through every scenario both good and bad. This could have easily happened after your engines were installed and back in the water. You can bang this out in 45-60 days and only miss a bit of this season.
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by BobCT »

BTW, did you cut the stringer in order to get the tank out or was that to inspect it?

Someone has to invent an in place solution for this problem. Bladder inside old tank or a liquid that solidifies. Imagine if that existed.
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

BobCT wrote:BTW, did you cut the stringer in order to get the tank out or was that to inspect it?

Someone has to invent an in place solution for this problem. Bladder inside old tank or a liquid that solidifies. Imagine if that existed.

Maybe the old timer that had the boat before me accidentally filled the tank with water.

I cut the stringer to remove the tank. I saw no other way.

A bladder would be great except for those darn baffles in there.

I still don't understand what all that crud is in there.
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

BobCT wrote:Wow, that's a lot of holes. Stating the obvious but at least you already had the engines out. Are you doing both tanks? I'm curious to see what the other one looks like.... I have mentally prepared myself for this at some point.

I can walk you through the intake rework when you get to that point. Do you still think this was the root cause or was it water inside the tank. Todd reinstalled his original tanks and said they checked out fine.

So the gas must have leaked into the limber hole and soaked into the stringer. It probably didn't matter though since water was probably doing the same long before the gas.

This has to be the worst feeling in the world. I'm sure you have run through every scenario both good and bad. This could have easily happened after your engines were installed and back in the water. You can bang this out in 45-60 days and only miss a bit of this season.

I gotta believe that is the source of my stringer issue. I have no clue how the tank could have corroded from the inside out. Is ethanol really that destructive or could it be another cause?

Todd has been a great resource and very optimistic. He's spoken to me multiple times at this point. Stand up guy and great resource!

Also, Bob at Beacon has done the same. He gave me the name of a tank company down in Jersey that I'm going to reach out to tomorrow.

And last but not least...I may be taking a trip up to north western CT to visit another friend of your for some parts!
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by yorklyn »

wow! thats some nasty stuff that came out of that tank. cant believe its that corroded on the inside! check and make sure your gas fill cap has the correct rubber o ring to seal the water out. I hate to say it but make sure that you clean and inspect the other tank. I think I asked you the other day but is the big fitting that screws into the tank for the fuel fill line stainless? those chunks almost look like rust blooms from a galvanized fitting that fell into the tank?
make sure this 90 degree fitting is also stainless
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zedtwentyate
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Re: Planning My Haul Out and Motor Pull (Update: Motors are out with Pics)

Post by zedtwentyate »

yorklyn wrote:wow! thats some nasty stuff that came out of that tank. cant believe its that corroded on the inside! check and make sure your gas fill cap has the correct rubber o ring to seal the water out. I hate to say it but make sure that you clean and inspect the other tank. I think I asked you the other day but is the big fitting that screws into the tank for the fuel fill line stainless? those chunks almost look like rust blooms from a galvanized fitting that fell into the tank?
make sure this 90 degree fitting is also stainless
Image

Thanks Todd. That's only a fraction of the crap that came out. I could have filled a small bucket with it! When you touch this stuff with a little pressure it just disintegrates. It small granules that clump together. Almost like a fine sand. I'll have to check that fill hose and the inside of those elbows. I did notice someone tried to re-bed the fill plate in the gunnel.
Kegan

1986 Trojan F-27 (SOLD!!!)
1989 Trojan 10 Meter Mid Cabin
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