generators

[Hiya Autumn]

hello to all,
I have been reading some of the posts about generators and a lot of no no.
well the Trojan I now own originally had a generator.

I would like to use a portable, but have not read any really helpful information/tips or advice as to the best way to go about having basic power out on the water.

Yes I am aware of the fumes issues and carrying a fuel container, but has anyone tried anything? anything at all that works?
I am not new to the boating world having had a couple of open fisherman boats one with spare 2nd fuel tank just next to the transom.

This subject is always open to fierce and very open comments, and I don't really want to re-invent the wheel and rehash old subjects, so I thought I would see if there are any 'alternative' suggestions

Thank you I look forward to some great conversation

[Moderator]

I moved your post to the Trojan boat forum , as this is a boating topic . It will get a lot more traffic here too . This subject has come up before and there will be many points of view .

[Big D]

You may have read this thread already but I'll post it just in case http://www.trojanboats.net/wforum/viewt ... f=1&t=9871

Pretty sure for the most part we tried to state the dangers of using portable units. There's a place for them as long as precautions are taken as suggested in the above thread. They aren't the ideal method for AC production on board, a marine unit is IMO but like it or not, the portables are becoming increasingly popular so they're here to stay and that's okay as long as one realizes the dangers and takes measures to avoid the pitfalls.

Your other alternatives are an inverter, however there are pros and cons to those as well, or a marine unit install. There used to be units that got bolted on to a main engine that were actually just a very large alternator that put out current for AC loads but I haven't seen one in years. They may still be out there but again, there are downfalls like using a large engine to produce electricity and it's also a parasitic draw on your engine even when it's not being used. Some smaller Carvers in the '80s used to have a particular brand as an option when there was no room for a stand alone unit in the engine bay. Other options are solar, and wind and hydro generators (AC while underway). Again, all come with pros and cons. Power requirements and the wallet will dictate.

Are there specific questions you'd like us to address?

....I am not new to the boating world having had a couple of open fisherman boats one with spare 2nd fuel tank just next to the transom.....

If you're talking about a vessel with an outboard, that's a completely different application for which some of the same safety concerns as an inboard and cabin boat don't apply.

[Paul]

Although I agree with Big D and several other posters that improper use and storage of a portable generator on a boat can pose several dangers, I also know that they can be used safely. We spend allot of weekends on the hook and after doing this on the Trojan it didn't take long to realize that AC power would simply enable us to better enjoy our weekends. That being said I thought that I'd weigh in with my portable generator experience.

We started spending weekends on the Trojan in 2001 and had only a small 120 Ah house bank to rely on which was usually dedicated to the refrigerator and limited cabin lighting as its only loads. In 2002 we upgraded the house bank to 220 Ah which allowed us to also use the stereo and television for a limited amount of time. As the natural progression of our power requirements became apparent, we started thinking that it would be great if we could power up the smart charger for a couple of hours daily to replenish the house bank so in 2004 we purchased a Honda EU2000i.

Many previous posts have covered how not to use these generators so I won't spend time on this and instead explain how we did use it. While cruising out to an anchorage, the unit sat in the cockpit under the passenger seat with the tank vent closed and it would stay there until it was required on the first morning on the hook. When power was required it was placed on the swim platform and plugged into the 30A fitting with a custom cable that I made specifically for this job. I'd usually run it for a couple of hours during which time we'd make coffee, make a tank of hot water and most importantly charge the batteries. After shutting it down, I'd let it cool then place it back in the cockpit with the tank vent closed until the next morning. This was a daily routine that worked well for several years without any issues. One of the first things that I did when I bought this generator was install a CO detector in the cabin and although it has never gone off while running the generator, to this day it goes off occasionally while running the main engine at cruising speed into a head wind due to the station wagon effect. As for fuel, I found that a full generator tank could last the weekend so I filled it before leaving the dock and didn't have to worry about carrying a "Jerry" can or refueling at anchor. Lastly, the generator was never left on the boat as it always came home with us after a weekend.

This was our routine for several years until I was fortunate enough to have a '69-'70 Kohler marine generator offered to me that was in pieces in several boxes. Not being a fan of spending 8 - 12 K on a new generator, this project was the right way to go. With the rebuild, new marine exhaust system, electrical panel upgrade and some upgraded ignition protection on the generator it came in at a fraction of the cost of a new generator. Having this unit in the boat also makes it easier to access AC power on the water as opposed to using the Honda and we find ourselves using is a little more often for using the microwave or occasionally running the AC.

Below is a picture of it with 2 sides and the lid of the enclosure removed.




Hope this helps,

[Big D]

The problem with portables is that no matter how much you try to convey the dangers, some people just never learn and for the sake of convenience ignore the warnings. I can't tell you how many times I've gone into an engine compartment and found a generator being stored there along with a gerry can that's just about ready to burst. In such a case, simply closing the tank vent on the genny isn't good enough. The carb still vents fuel vapour to atmosphere unprotected and a spark under the right conditions can be catastrophic. It's not marine rated and so it doesn't belong down there. Yet it's just another warning that gets ignored. Why? Because it's a portable and by it's very nature makes it easy to ignore proper storage precautions or become complacent after a while. Add a little booze and well.....

I think we relayed in another post some safe ways to use a portable on board if that's the best option in one's case, and as I mentioned, there is a place for them in the industry. The problem is there's no convincing some people of the potential dangers of using them a particular way, so the warnings are ignored. As in most cases, it's the operator that's the issue. Most will say that they've used it a certain way for years with no problems and so they'll carry on despite the warnings. To that, I say "lucky you!" The right circumstances just haven't come together yet for the perfect storm but under the right conditions, something bad will happen, it's just a matter of time before the ticking stops and the bomb goes off. Isn't it all about reducing these possibilities?

Am I painting a dooms day scenario? You're damn right I am! It's a safety concern for all on board and potentially other vessels around you. I emphasize the worst because I've learned over the years that in spite of what you say on forums, some will only take away what suits their purpose and ignore the pitfalls because they're simply too much work.

Personally I'm not saying no way under any circumstances, but I am saying learn the dos and don'ts and don't deviate under any circumstances. If you can't do that or the precautions are too much trouble, don't get a portable generator.

[prowlersfish]

Well said Big D . Well said

[zedtwentyate]

I ran a honda 2000 watt for a few years. Just about everyone on my lake does. Most of my usage was while i was docked at a public place without power. The generator would sit on shore, far from the boat.

Last year I installed a 2000 watt inverter with 2 8D batteries and have never looked back. It's nice to not have that EU2000 sitting on the back deck of the boat and to not have to worry about a can of gas.

[Hiya Autumn]

Thank you for the informative comments.

I would like to know more of the 2000 watt inverter with 2 8D batteries set up. that actually sounds safer and more cost effective anyway

Do you have any photos and diagrams?

[RonW]

I also used a Honda 2000 in the swim platform for many years exactly as Paul did. I also knew the dangers that Big D highlighted and thank you for that.
But that's not why I'm posting.
My F44FBMY is the first boat I've had with an on-board generator (Westerbeke 7.0 kW..... very quiet.... outside, my bilge pump is louder).
I made a $600 mistake that I wanted to share.
It was a super hot day at the dock. I was having a drink with a friend below in the main salon because it was too hot to be outside. The power on the dock went off likely because everyone else was doing the same thing. I said no problem........ and started the generator. I switched the boat over to the generator. Many of you know what happened next although, surprisingly, not right away. I didn't turn anything off first. Because it was so hot, the generator was instantly loaded with 2 A/C units, a full size fridge, a bar fridge, an ice maker and chargers for the 17 batteries.
The next time I ran the generator, there were very strange symptoms. The 220V stove worked fine, but the 110V only put out fluctuating 40V to 60V.
Although it didn't happen right away, I had melted one of the capacitors.
As another interesting point, the diodes didn't test to spec, but then the new ones tested exactly the same. I appreciated that the distributor (Keats Marine) accepted them as returns.
Some well learned lessons for me to share.
Ron