Re-Powering an 1973 F32--Diesel or Gas?????

[everus]

I purchased an F32 this spring and blew an engine two weeks ago. I have plans to redo this sweetheart from stem to stern and now I'm looking at re-powering instead of rebuilding the S engine. The motors are Merc Ford 302's and handled great for most of the summer.
To those captains who have re-powered with diesel I will ask the following questions.
What did you do with props?
Any major install problems?
How does your boat handle vs gas and did you save money on the water?
What should I look at cost wise if I install myself?
What diesel engines and trannys should I be looking for my F32 and what other parts are required changing to diesel?
Any help would be wonderful. Thanks

[rossjo]

Join http://www.boatdeisel.com - $25/year - tons of info on reprwers.

I have a 1974 F32 with Cummins 6BTAs (22HP ea) and 1:1 Velevt Drives.

I would prefer 6CTAs - as they are 300+HP - the extra power would be nice.

Very economical for a big 15k# boat.

1:1 drives on a diesel are probably necessary, as you are limited to 17" dia unless you change the struts and drives train.

[jav]

Everus,

I'm one of "those captains"- here's my answers to your questions.

Props- I used my old ones the first year after slight repitching- bought bigger ones the following year that were better- but originals weren't bad.

Major install problems? None- but this is realitve. What I might consider no problem, could be a huge problem to the next guy. It's a big job and requires a lot of planning to do right and smoothly.

Handling was not really effected since my engines didn't alter weight or weight distribution that much at all. I will say that my cruise speed went up over 3 knots (to 20-21 knots) AND my consumption was cut almost in half.

Cost on the water? HUGE difference for the better. I went from 22-24 gph to around 12-14 gph. I don't worry about the cost of cruising anymore (and fuel prices have gone way up)

Cost really depends on how you chose to proceed. I think the cheapest you can get out of it - doing EVERYTHING yourself - with decent USED diesels and, re-using some old stuff like tanks, props, shafts, trannies etc. is around 20k all said and done. If you go all out with new higher HP common rail engines, gears, tanks, gauges, running gear etc. you could easily dop 60k in materials alone.

What should you be looking for? Lots of options here. You need to figure out how you "really" plan to use the boat, figure out your budget then look for options that should cost about 30% less than your budget so that when you hit the inevitable snag- you've got some working room. Anything between 400 & 600 hp total works. My opinion is that that twin 250 HP engines are about perfect.

Just so yu know, I'm glad it did mine and wouldn't go back but, it's not all roses (rarely is with boats). Guys that are straight with you, will give you the good and the bad. The bad- There is significantly more noise, vibration and smell with diesels. Some guys like that.. some days I do, other days I don't. The wife never likes it. The overall cost to benefit ratio does not support this swap in most pleasure applications (you won't save enough on fuel in the short term to make this a no brainer decision). Work out the numbers then decide.

[rossjo]

Agree 100%

Diesel Repower:

Pros:
> Better gas maileage (2x?),
> reliability (simpler, no timing/wiring/plugs, etc.),
> lonegevity (they'lll last the life of your boat),
> safety (diesel will NOT catch fire or explode),
> sound and smell (if you like it)
> increases and retain overall value of boat
> diesels raise fish - some say!

Cons:
> sound and smell (if you dislike it)
> cost - $20-25k min to
to $60-100k (or more if brand new by a shop)
> time (500 - 2000 hours of your time/labor)
> the F32 can only take a 17" dia prop and prefers
a 16" dia to reduce noise - but its a diesel anyway),
so your tranny and prop combos are limited, unless
you change the drives shaft and sruts. The struts
need to go anyway - as they'll be shot in a few
years anyway.
> the 1.25" dia safts are marginal - max of 300HP. I
am stillnot sure exactly hat material the Trojan
shafts are - this is VERY important.

I love mine - but I run 50-75 miles offshore (150-200 miles/day) to fish - and 100-200 mile weekend cruises, so reliability and fuel mileage are key for me. I love a diesel sportfish, but the F32 is not a true offshore rig anyway (lloks great, but the shall V is bad, bo-steers dangerously in heavy following seas). I'm replacing my 17x17 props with 17x20's next week - we'll see ...

Bottom line - If I were to re-pwer again - I would do it with a boat with more V and better sea handling characteristics (Bertram 34?), but it looks great (tons better than a Bertie 28 for example), has a great layout (like a Silverton 34) and makes a fantastic ICW cruiser and offshore fisher on < 4' seas days! My frinds with 36 Hats and 34 and 42 Berties are amazed by the look and sizable feel.

[rossjo]

If youlive near Charleston, SC - come by and take a look - might help ...

[RWS]

I repowered my 10 meter this year.
It was a simple decision, as it was time to repower anyway and
rebuilding the factory 454's completely with all new oil coolers & heat exchangers was almost as costly than a NEW 8.1 Crusader, so I was already at the cost for the new 8.1's anyway.

The yard advised that the 1 1/4" shafts were borderline acceptable for the 8.1's which meant new props & shafts.

That said, the DIFFERENCE between the 8.1's with new props & shafts vs the diesels was significant, but now the DIFFERENCE was becoming less & less, however the value of the vessel would have been little different with the 454's or even the 8.1's.

The difference in cost equates the increased value of the vessel say 5 years down the road.

This is in addition to the advantages mentioned here by others.

I'll get that DIFFERENCE back when it's time to sell her (if I ever do)

While the engines are out it was a good opportunity to add additional sound insulation, additional engine room lighting, additional emergency bilge pump and fittings to make engines act as bilge pumps also, replace all bilge hoses, maleron fittings and 23 year old hot water tank and air conditioning, not to mention painting the engine room.

THE RESULT - A nearly totally new, reliable vessel that can go farther and cover more miles in less time, opening up a whole new world of boating.

Good luck,

Running WIth Scissors

[jav]

Capt Ross,


It's scary how alike we think. The front runner for my next boat will likely be a Bert 33FBC or Bert 35. I've talked to quite a few Bert ownes and they really like their boats. The problem for us makeing that jump is: Our F-32's are as big as the Bert's- inside. No doubt the Bert's deep V is better in sea's than our shallower modified V, but , they are also much harder to push so the economy with a Bert diesel, isn't comperable to our boats. I cruise at 20-21 knots @ about 14 GPH.... the Bert 35 is going to be around 20-22 GPH at that speed. Granted, the Bert will do that into true 3 footers reasonably comfortably while our boats will be taking a beating... but I don't enjoy being out their when things are that sloppy anyway. The Berts are in a different league though and one day.... who knows.

BTW- good call on boatdiesel.com. I'm a member and theres pics and quite a few posts about the repower of my '74 F-32.

[JuiceClark]

I know you'll get $15k more for the boat when you sell it...but rebuilt big blocks are really cheap.

I have an F-36. When it came time to repower I bought a couple 454 rebuilds for $3K each...with 2.5 to 1 Velvet drives. A couple 3208s or cummins would have been $25,000.

As for mileage, I cruise at 20 mph at 3100 rpm and use 22 g/p/h. The manual with the boat says the optional Cummins diesels would have burned 15 g/p/h at 18 mph. Yes, that more economical. But worth $30,000 more...I think not.

Besides, you probably have 1 3/8" shafts. You should really install larger ones for a diesel. New struts, shafts, props, engines, gears, gauges, tanks, etc, etc, etc...! You're looking at least $40,000 more to put in diesels. That's 15,000 gallons of fuel. Even if the boat would get twice the mileage with diesels, which it won't, you'd have to cruise 30,000 miles before you broke even with diesels...doesn't make sense to me!

Buy the biggest gas engines you can get a deal on...then cruise them at an easy pace and you'll get good mileage.

Tony in Fort Myers, FL

[rossjo]

and you'll be replacing thos gas engines every 5 years (+/-).

Also - 2x mileage = 2x range, which is important to me, as I fish 50-60 miles offshore. ALso helps on long cruises - someitmes difficult to make it between fel stop son the ICW, Western Rivers or even the St. Lawrence.

[prowlersfish]

diesels the only way to go on anything over 30 foot

Paul

[willietrojan]

If you looking at a 60K to repower, you can buy a 42’ Post for 75K with 6,71’s

[jav]

Willie,

thats true and I've heard that postition before. The difference is : IF you go the 60K route, you end up with brand new equipment, warranties and some peace of mid (equipment wise- similar to that of a new boat.) Buying XYZ 36' plus twin diesel for 75K will most likely buy you "well used" equipment and no warranty at all. Granted, 671's are very rugged, but not very desireable by todays standards.

[rossjo]

There is a Nice 1974 F32 w/ CAT 3208 diesels for $49.9k in Westport, MA on Yachworld.com - new blue paint and all. I would consider that boat i I were looking!
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... =1821&url=

good luck!

[jav]

I went to see that boat just to see how mine stacked up to it (both being 1974's). It ws originally listed at 59.9k and I saw it in the middle of winter so not the best of circumstances. . It was a decent boat ( far from perfect, but not a bad either). I thought it would move at that price but surprisingly it hasn't.

[RWS]

Two 454's @ $3-4000 each = $6-8,000 not including the add on items like coolers, heat exchangers, carbs, hoses, elbows, etc, etc, etc.

Crusader Captains Choice new 8.1's are about 13,000 each x2 = 26,000

Comparing NEW COMPLETE to same makes the DIFFERENCE between the gas & diesel less significant.

Add the RESALE to the equation, not to mention a faster more economical cruise (not to mention SAFER !) and if you're going to keep her six years or more, the choice is easy to make.

In neither case is it an "investment" the same as any boat certainly is not.

The biggest cost in boating isn't fuel, or O&M, it's DEPRECIATION.

These vessels are at the bottom of the depreciation curve, you're not going to lose much in that department. If you maintain her and the cost of new vessels continues to climb, she should at the very least, hold her value.

ESPECIALLY compared to a Sea Ray or similar vessel of the same vintage.

Running With Scissors