Holding Tank on 10 meter mid cabin express

gardnersf · Post by **gardnersf** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:23 pm

My 10 meter was retrofitted with a holding tank under the queen berth. The tank has 12 gal written on it. I don't have the exact size but it seems that I could get a larger one in there.

It aslo seems to fill quickly. I would think with a vacuflush head, even 12 gal would last a little while.

Any 10 meter owners have a larger tank there or any other place to put the tank? I know the regular express models have the tank in the ER. I may explore that idea as well but thats a lot of hoses to run

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:58 am

Hi Scott,

The 1983 express cruiser (not a mid cabin) carries a 40 gallon fresh water fiberglass tank built into in the keel under the center of the salon floor and a 40 gallon fiberglass waste tank, also built into and below the engine room floor. The head empties into the waste tank, all other sinks, shower etc discharge directly overboard.

It's a nice, short and downhill plumbing run from the vacuum tank.

Before going to the trouble of expanding the sytem, you might want to confirm that 12 gallon capacity with other mid cabin owners and get some usage input.

If yours was retrofitted, what was there when the vessel was first delivered?

The Vacuflush uses little water per flush and since it's fresh water you avoid all those odor issues that come with salt water flushing systems.

If you do go that route. you might want to consider simply adding an additional tank utilizing a couple of "Y" valves, rather than replacing the one you have.

I found that mine would go through macerators about once every 18 months (once because I forgot to turn it off, once because of a rubber band that got wound into the blades and once for no apprent reason) so I replaced the macerator with a second vacuflush pump. It really works well and also can be considered a "backup" if my head vacuflush fails while on a trip and I choose to swap the pumps out.

Last year I bought a watertight inspection hatch for my freshwater tank as I planned on cutting a hole in the top to do a through cleaning. I figured that after 25 yerars of use, it couldn't be a bad idea, but I haven't yet gotten around to doing it yet.

Do a search on the Boatered site and you'll find some useful information regarding the amount of water used on an average flush. Then you can calculate the people load and number of days capscity you have.

Hope you are enjoying that 10 meter.

RWS

gardnersf · Post by **gardnersf** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:53 am

RWS,

Thanks for the response and thanks for the wiring diagrams

This model originally had an purisan\electrosan system associated with it. I need to do more research on the piping runs but I have a vaccuum pump with what loosk likes an accumulator. The accumulator has a pressure switch on it (which isn't working right btw, I have to shut off the pump manually).

The tank has three hoses from it. I assume one from the head, one to the pumpout and a vent. There is an overboard discharge but I haven't figured out where that taps in yet.

We did think about it a little more and realized that we had spent three separate days on the mooring since pumpout with 4-6 kids on board at any time. So we may have filled 12 gals.

I would be interested in other mid cabins. RWS I like the idea of a second holding tank as a backup. I assuem you woudl wanta y on the pumpout as well?

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:32 pm

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:53 am Post subject:

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RWS,

Thanks for the response and thanks for the wiring diagrams

Glad to help. With a quality orphan boat we actually get better rservice reccomendations and support from our community of boat addicts than we would ever get from the factory or a local dealer.

For the benefit of the forum, I'm inserting my reply in CAPS so it can be distinguished from yours.

This model originally had an purisan\electrosan system associated with it.

I HAVE NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF THE ELECTROSAN SYSTEM OTHER THAN SWIMMING AROUND A FRIENDS 11 METER WHEN IT DECIDED TO DO AN AUTOMATIC DISCHARGE. THAT WAS ILL TIMED AND NASTY.

I need to do more research on the piping runs but I have a vaccuum pump with what loosk likes an accumulator. The accumulator has a pressure switch on it (which isn't working right btw, I have to shut off the pump manually).

THE PRESSURE SWITCH IS LOACTED ON THE SIDE OF THE ACCUMULATOR. SOME OF THOSE PRESSURE SWITCHES HAVE AN ADJUSTMENT AND SOME DO NOT. MINE DOES AND i HAVE ADJUSTED IT TWICE IN SEVEN YEARS OF OPERATING IT.

THE PLUMBING RUN ON MINE IS VERY SIMPLE AND THERE IS NO Y VALVE, NOR ARE THERE ANY VALVES AT ALL WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE THRU HULL SEACOCK

HEAD TO ACCUMULATOR TANK WHERE VAC SWITCH TURNS ON/OFF VAC PUMP.

ACCUMULATOR TANK TO VAC PUMP WITH DUCKBILL VALVES.

VAC PUMP TO HOLDING TANK.

THAT'S IT ON THE HEAD SIDE.

THERE IS ONE DIRECT VENT LINE FROM THE TANK TO AN ABOVE THE WATER LINE THRU HULL.

ON THE PUMP-OUT SIDE THERE IS A HOSE THAT RUNS FROM THE TANK TO THE DECK FITTING. IT HAS A TEE THAT GOES TO WHAT USED TO BE THE MACERATOR AND NOW IS A SECOND VACUUM PUMP WHICH GOES TO A SEACOCKED THRUHULL.

THE ONLY TIME WE CLOSE THAT VALVE IS AT A MARINE WASTE PUMPOUT OR WHEN PREPARING FOR A STORM.

The tank has three hoses from it. I assume one from the head, one to the pumpout and a vent. There is an overboard discharge but I haven't figured out where that taps in yet.

We did think about it a little more and realized that we had spent three separate days on the mooring since pumpout with 4-6 kids on board at any time. So we may have filled 12 gals.

I would be interested in other mid cabins. RWS I like the idea of a second holding tank as a backup. I assuem you woudl wanta y on the pumpout as well?

I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON SANITATION, OTHER THAN THE EXISTING SYSTEM ON MY 10 METER. PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN ADD TO THIS THREAD...

RWS

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:07 pm

RWS,
I have the vacuflush also. Have you ever removed or replaced the pressure switch on the acculator tank? If so was it difficult? Since day one when you fliped the toggle switch for the head the vacuum pump will just run nonstop. I've replaced all the duckbill valves and the gasket and flushball in the head. I have no loss off vacuum so I'm guessing its the pressure switch. The curent routine is to used the head then go to the panel and flip the switch, wait 30 seconds, flush the head, then go flip the switch off again! It's amazing what you can live with once it becomes routine!
Thanks,
Todd

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:45 pm

Hi Todd,
That's one of the jobs I have ahead of me also. Finding the vacuum leak in our system. I'm not looking forward to that job. I've already replaced the TDX system with a holding tank. The biggest I could get into our space was an 11 gallon tank.
Wes

davescarrs · Post by **davescarrs** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:20 pm

i recently replaced the whole switch assembly- $100 which includes diaphram type thing that I found to have a pin hole in it, causing the pump to continually run (the switch would never shut off b/c it didn't measure enough vacuum). it is at the end of the vaccuflush cylinder with a cover/cap over it. It was easy and the toilet now works perfect.

call the manufacturer. the cust. service guy will know exactly what is wrong. he set me up and i got the part in two days. i, too, was doing the circuit board panel on/off trick. It's much nicer now.

Yorkyln- was the flushball easy to replace? i can see that being next.

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:32 am

Davescars,
Thank you very much for the info. Fixing that is on my todo list during my refit.
I did the flushball about 3 yrs ago. If I recall correctly you remove the plastic boot around the base of the head, it just snaps off. theres a metal clamp that holds the bowl onto the base. You remove the clamp and seperate the two and have pretty good access to everything. Be sure to flush a good deal of water down prior to this project to help clean everything out. Theres a kit that contains the ball and new gaskets that has everything you need. sorry I can't be more specific but it's been a while since I had it apart.
Good Luck

gardnersf · Post by **gardnersf** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:24 pm

My vacuum swicth seems to be bad as well. We do the same routine.

Does anyone have a larger holding tank under the fwd berth? I'm pretty sure I can get a better one in there as I have seen some pretty extensive tank listings. I think the problem will be getting it into the forwad cabin. I was also trying to figure out where else to put a holding tank. I have a big empty area between the engines under the wood platform (fwd of the genny) I think that is where the built in tank is one the express. I don't think I would build in a tank but coudl fit a poly tank of considerabel size there .. but.. it might make transmission access difficult.

yorklyn · Post by **yorklyn** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:28 am

I have a 40 gal tank under my forward berth that I will be pulling out in the near future. I'll take some pics and get some measurements for you. I'm heading out today for vacation but will see if I can get you some info when I get back.