Starboard Engine Stalling Without Warning.

[canuckkb]

I am assuming that the ballast are correct and connected properly. The ballast has a small notch and the wire connector has a tab which fits into this notch. There is no way to reverse. I have a wiring diagram, and spent some time tracing wires. It appeared that all wires between the ECU, ballast, and ignition coil was connected properly. There is a small screw on the ECU wiring harness, and I have had the harness, as well as the 8 pin connector apart, and they appeared to be in good condition. I applied a small amount of dielectric grease to the pins and reconnected.
About the oil pressure sending unit. This is something that I have never really looked into. My guages appear to be working properly, however I have not traced the wires. I will look at that Thursday morning.
Thank everybody for their suggestions.

[Drafter]

I went down this road and fought it through most of the summer. Had the carb rebuilt, checked the anti siphon valve, distributor, etc. I had an MSD electronic ignition installed by a previous owner. Finally gave up and installed a new electronic ignition box for $239. Problem solved. Could have been bad or corroded connections, bad ground, etc. I was tired of chasing it and just started over.

[mikeandanne]

Have a look at this info, there is a great troubleshoot and explanation of what i believe you have---this might help with the voltage drop issue --mopar had many different values of ballast resisters and the coil and resister must match---

The reason I mentioned the oil pressure switch is because it is connected to the alternator and has something to do with the engine alarms.---Hope this helps---Mike



http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/ ... pic=3424.0

[larryeddington]

The screw that holds the 4 or 5 pin connector is not small, about 1.25 inches or a little longer. It is found in the center of the Chrysler ECU module plug. Different from the 8 pin connector. It is found under the plastic cover for controls at rear of engine, dead center of the Chrysler only connector.

I asked a while back and never got and answer. There are two sensors for oil pressure one is obviously pressure sending unit, there is another on top of the oil tree, again under the plastic hood. It appears to possibly an on and off switch and ignition goes via it. No one ever answered me as to what it was, I guess it works as mine run, but might be the problem for you. It is shown on the wiring diagrams but not description as to what it is for?

L

[canuckkb]

larryeddington - Yes I know of the little screw that you are referring too. I had them off then back on when switching components from one engine to another. Things looks like there were making good contact. I dabbed a small amount of dielectric grease on reassemble as well.
Mike - thank you for the link. I printed it out and will review and go through it on Thursday morning when I am at the boat.
I will look at the oil sending unit. Maybe there is something there. I have never really looked into this.

I have about 2 hours on Thursday morning to fix it before they are lifting "Lady Annabell" out. If I am unable to get my voltage up, I think that I will do what was previously advised and replace parts. I will probably replace the ECU, ballast resistor, ignition coil, and electronic ignition. If this does not cure the problem, I will have gained some piece of mind and some spare parts.

[kallen]

Had to step in. You can compare readings between the engines.

Fuel OR ignition?

Fuel - After it stalls is the carb out of fuel? Try the accelerator pump and see if it pumps fuel.Should be a strong stream. If not start at the tank pickup & anti - siphon valve follow the line. Fuel filters. Had a flexible fuel line collapse internally restricting the flow between the copper fuel line & the fuel pump once.Check fuel pump pressure & volume. Then start looking at the carb.

Electrical
Run engine at 1000.rpm
What is the voltage at the battery.
Voltage at the alt. circuit breaker
Voltage at ballast resistor (both sides).
If you can find a Chrysler diagram of the plug on the electronic ignition module you can check voltages etc. Some modules have different number of pins 4 or 5. Check yours as to the correct plug wiring. Cant find mine.
Voltage at positive side of the coil should be approx. 9.6 volts.

Questions
Do you have both lower & upper ignition switches on at the same time or just using one. Had a faulty ignition switch that would cut out.
Put a volt meter on the positive side of the coil to see if voltage is cut off when the motor stalls
Different manufactures for resisters have different specs.Is this a single or dual ballast resister.
Hope this helps.

The second sender on the oil tree is for the warning buzzer the you have lost oil pressure or the engine has stalled.

[canuckkb]

So we pulled the boat out this morning. It was a sad day because I am not ready to say goodbye until spring. I arrived at the marina about an hour before sunrise and watch both engines run while in total darkness. I did not see an stray sparks from either engine. I traced the fuel line, and can see that it is all brass tubing and no sections of hose, so I think that i can assume that I do not have a collapsed or pinched fuel line. I only had 5.6 volts from the '+' terminal of the coil to ground, and 6.2 volts on the other engine. I disconnected the wire from the oil pressure sending unit as well as the wires to the engine synchronizer, and there where no voltage changes. The batteries were at 12.6 volts before I started the engines, both alternators were pumping out about 14 volts, and all voltage checks stayed consistant with one or both engines running.
The engines started, idled, and ran beautiful and did not have any problems on the short ride from my slip to the pumpout then to the travel lift. Even if the engine did quit, I would not have had time to check any voltages and things, because I was in fairly tight quarters and we had about a 15 knot breeze.
It was brought up a few times about how there are different part models and it is important to have the correct combination of ECU, ballast resistor, and ignition coil. I do not know if I have that. This is what the boat came with. Therefore, over the winter I am going to install a brand new set on both engine. Also, I will replace every filter, double check and clean every connection including the main engine grounds. Also, I think that I will pull the exhaust hoses off and ensure that they are not collapsed.
If anybody else has any suggestions of items that I should add to my list, I would like to hear.
Also, does anybody from Ontario have an suggestions on where to buy these items.

Thank you for all the help,

Kevin and "Lady Annabell"

[Scorpion07]

Well I "think" I've found my dying engine problem. Alternator.
Had it tested and it was shot. Replaced it with a single wire internal voltage regulator model.
Now here's the story:
About mid summer while attempting to diagnose my dying eng problem, I tested the voltage output at the alternator and it was low. Like 8 volts. So I suspected the alternator. But something baffled me. Whenever the engine died, it would still crank over like it had a full charge? Just wouldn't fire up. So I scratched the bad alternator diagnoses and went after the ignition, figuring my cheap multimeter read it wrong (I've since bought a good one).
I Changed the coil. Added a ballast resistor (previously upgraded the ignition so didn't think it was necessary, but). Chased all my wiring looking for issues, and still nothing.
I had a wiring schematic from a 1973 F32 and everything looked like the schematic, EXCEPT a small 3 wire rectifier looking thing tied into the DC circuitry on my boat. Thought it was from a PO add on. Then in my quest for a fix I stumbled upon an updated schematic for a 1978 (same as my boat), and voila, the rectifier setup is in the schematic! Now I'm onto something! Well it turns out that this rectifier actually triggers the emergency start solenoid for two battery starts every time you start an engine. Which leads me to the hypothesis that the starboard battery was indeed fully discharged due to the poor alternator output, and the reason the engine cranked over was because the "hot start" trigger linked the good port battery into the system.
I'm feeling good about this diagnosis. Just wish I could test it before the end of winter.
BTW this is the note on the schematic regarding the rectifier:
"Auto power start-
When engine start switches are energized, rectifier will close emergency start solenoid, this automatically applies max battery power for engine starting."

Might want to check into a alternator test Canuckkb? I had to go to a specialty shop because no locals had a tester that would work with my ancient, original alternator.

[rbcool]

Had the same problem on the Genny on my last boat. An old mechanic told me that when an engine suddenly and immediately quits without warning (no sputter, no change in rpm) it probably is the oil pressure sensor. I replaced it and Never had a problem again!
RB

[larryeddington]

Does this little rectifier thingy sort of look like a metal bar about 1.5 to 2 inches long with spade lugs at each end and one in the middle. I found one like that in my 12 volt locker on the boat I am junking out. Me thinks it is what your are referring to. If so I have and extra one on my shelf if so.

[Scorpion07]

Yes that's the one. I found a link to a newer schematic on this
forum. Just can't find it.

[larryeddington]

Well I got off my rear and looked up my F28 wiring diagram and found the part I mentioned, I had overlooked it before. It appears, as has been said before, that the crossover solenoid is automatically energized when starting either engine. (assuming all is working correctly) The little device allows that to happen. So the crossover is not just manual but auto as well. According to my manual it is because one battery is used only for starting the engine and the other runs various accessories. I guess it is an isolating diode for the two start systems.

Assuming one would want to continue as originally designed I wonder where one would get a new one?

[canuckkb]

One more crazy question. I obviously do not have near good enough grasp on how the electrical system works. Both of my engines have an ignition coil voltage of around 6 volts. These engines came with an upgraded electronic ignition system, which I do not know the history behind. I have had 3 different mechanics look at the motor that is stalling however in all 3 incidences, they made a quick diagnosis, then left. Anyways, I am looking to replace the parts then I start pondering this even more. The way I understand it is that normally the ballast resistor reduces the coil voltage from around 12 to 9 volts. Roughly a 3 volt drop. This is used on an external resistor coil. In my case I have around 6 volts. Could this mean that I have the wrong type of ignition coils? Coils that internally reduce the voltage from 12 to 9. In my case I would be adding a ballast resistor to this, which would be reducing the voltage an additional 3 volts.
Am I correct in my thinking? Would the voltage drop an addition 3 volts when using and Internal resistor coil with a ballast resistor? It does not say anywhere on the coil if it is an internal or external resistor. I assumed that it was the correct type of coil.
Hmmm. Is my problem so obvious that it was missed by myself and 3 different mechanics? Double Hmmm.

[mikeandanne]

It may be just that, something very basic----- there are two different sides to that ballast,if it is the one I think it is it has 5 ohms on one side and .5 ohms on the other----- coil side should be wired to the .5 ohm side I believe and with both engines the same it would lead me to that---check out the diagram on the link---- try reversing the wiring as it is and see what voltage you see on the coil side of the ballast--you may just have the wrong coils as well-- I have found many things wired backwards on our boat so give it a shot and see what you get------ you need a min. of 8 volts for happiness , but with .5 ohms probably only a couple volt drop so long as grounds etc are ok---- let us know what happens----

One more thing, that gold coloured box is I believe, basically just a signal amplifier for the coil and if your voltage readings are correct probably is having a hard time even working---- after about 2000 there were a lot of failures, even new from the box

[TC]

""Now today was different. It ran for maybe 20 to 25 minutes, then stalled. I attempted to restart it several times, in which it would stall immediately. After about 10 attempts, it ran when I pumped the throttle to full throttle, it gave a few stumbles, it then ran perfectly. After about an hour I shut it off because I was leaving. I say that it appears to be electrical, however I do not know that for sure.""

After reading all the posts it does suggest an electrical problem but the quote above stolen from your first post makes me wonder why it ran, if I am reading this right, with full throttle.... with an electrical problem. If it started then stalled that would suggest it is getting spark. Are we looking the wrong way or do you have two separate issues that may be clouding each other. I agree with "kallen" that you should look at little deeper into the fuel side. As simple as it sounds, a plugged fuel filter could cause stalling conditions with no restarts. Let sit for afew minutes and then restarts.
No real suggests here, there seem to be many by owners of the same equipment, but it may be time to step back and rethink.