Bow Thruster Installation/Use

[The Dog House]

We're currently using spring lines to get our F26 in and out of tight places when the wind is blowing us off of the dock. My wife is getting concerned that she won't be able to work the lines on the bow in a few years from now as she gets older and less secure on her feet. Has anyone installed a bow thruster in a F26? If so, what was installed and how much did the total package cost? I really like our F26 and could see this being our last boat but I do need someone on the bow working the spring line in order to do everything I want to do. Hopefully a bow thruster would allow me to keep the boat and allow my wife to keep her feet in the cockpit.

[captainmaniac]

Haven't done it myself, but do know a few people who have had thrusters added. For an in-hull (tunnel) thruster, you need the space under the v-berth to fit it. My holding tank is there so probably couldn't install that type in my boat.

But there is also an externally mounted version https://sideshift.com/bow-thrusters/ss350-bow-thruster/ I have seen versions of this added to boats from 25' up to a 42 Silverton Aft (including a '67 36' Sea Voyager (I believe) Sedan!), it is a lot easier install than the tunnel type, and a lot less expensive. Only have to drill holes big enough for the bolts and wires, and most if not all holes are above the waterline. The web site has videos of the installation process. The downside - potential of impact related damage if you hit something in the water. These are normally mounted in a way that the blades are deep enough under water at idle speeds, but once on plane they are out of the water (to minimize drag problems). They also have a stern thruster - so you can say goodbye to your prop walk too!

Apparently they have a key fob remote control now too... so you can operate the thruster from anywhere on (or very near) the boat.

My buddy with the 42 had the underwater portion of his painted with anti-fouling so it sort of blended in with the rest of the bow.

[ready123]

Will the extra weight of the thruster battery in bow be something you will be happy with? And then keeping it fully charged?

Remembering back to the days when I had a single... which I now only have on my dinghy.

Can you change your method of handling the spring line to work from midships while still keeping the forward tie off of the line on the boat?
For the conditions you describe I would not be handling the line from the bow.... I like to be nearer dock level....
Wind blowing off the dock: Leaving I would want spring nearer stern on dock and allow wind to blow stern out somewhat after removing stern line, loosen spring line by flicking last wrap off cleat (it is on fwd ear) and reverse away. NOTE I use bow spring lines that are > boat length up to 1 1/2 boat lengths.
Arriving is opposite, fwd at 45 degrees to dock space and then shallow angle up getting midships close to dock and attach spring to allow fwd: power to pull stern fully in.

Having people on the dock to help makes it even easier when they are told how you want to do things first.....

[captainmaniac]

Ready, I know where Dog is coming from. Climbing on an off the bow given fluctuating water heights with fixed docks, or an F-anything bow height compared to most floating docks, becomes a challenge at a certain point in life. Have had the conversation with my wife as well. She is just not comfortable dealing with a 2' difference in height - jumping down, or climbing up. By moving towards the cockpit she can reduce the height problem, but I need to hit the dock perfectly and not start drifting towards my neighbour for that to work (and that's not possible in all conditions), or we have a problem. As good as I am, I will admit to F'ing up docking attempts once or twice a year, and with a recent 30 knot wind offshore I had a hell of time getting the boat close enough to the fuel dock at Collins Bay for her to safely step off!.

People on the dock to help are not always available.... As a boater, you need to be self sufficient, so can't rely on help to get in or out. Flipping lines on and off cleats is a practiced skill, so if you do that 100 times a year you can probably get pretty good at it and that's cool, but if you only do it 10-20 times (like those of us Canucks who still have to work for a living and only spend so much time on the boat), it's less polished.

I truly HATE the idea of bow and stern thrusters. My view for the past 25 years has been that if you need bow and stern thrusters to maneuver your boat, you don't know how to handle the boat and I have been very opinionated about that. I see so many boaters (even just restricting this to my marina) who use their bow thruster to turn the boat as they navigate through the marina - these are people with twin engine boats, who think they need the bow thruster to turn from a main channel into a fairway, or turn towards their slip!!!!! The new crop of 'joystick controlled' boats, Volvo Penta's stuff, and Mercruiser's Zeus or Axius systems, have bred a new crop of boaters who only understand 'point and shoot with the joystick', and have no clue about actual boat handling.

But as age and physical limitations become something that are more constraining than my ability to get the boat to the dock (nobody to help, and the dock is too low for the wife to get off the boat and wrap a line), the idea of thrusters to keep the boat where I want it while I or the wife get off at the easiest point, starts to look good.... Don't want to go there. Hate to go there. But going there might be the right, or safest, thing to do.

[ready123]

Captain,

I understand that there can be rare times when one's docking skills still cannot over come something like 30 knot offshore wind....... but in that case would one's thruster in fact have had the power to do a better job than 200+ HP engines??
I just don't see it as an economic or cost effective solution.... certainly not for a boat as small as a 26 footer.
Adjusted docking skill can solve the problem for most docking situations... and one can always go to a less crowded/tight area for that rare high wind day!

What was your fuel consumption on that trip to Kingston from Burlington??

[The Dog House]

My home port is side to docking with the current running parallel to the dock at anywhere from 1 mph to 3 mph. Because of the current I do not always have the opportunity to dock port side to. I often have to dock starboard side to in order to have my bow into the current.

The prevailing wind at my home port is also typically off the dock at anywhere from 5 mph to 15 mph. This combination of current and wind makes it difficult to get my F26 next to the dock between two boats (fore and aft) without using spring lines. I typically dock using a bow aft spring line and going forward slowly with the wheel turned away from the dock. This technique works well, with the spring line preventing the bow from running into the boat ahead of me and the rudder moving the stern in next to the dock. If I only boated on days where the wind was pushing me onto the dock or there was no wind, I might go out once per year. That's just not an acceptable solution.

My wife has informed me that sometime in the future (think 5 years in the future) she will not be comfortable standing on the bow as I dock the boat. My two choices are figure out how to dock this boat without a bow spring line or replace this boat with something else. Knowing how much the wind pushes the bow off the dock in my typical scenario (5 mph - 15 mph wind), I don't think I'll be able to get the boat next to the dock without controlling the bow somehow. I'm open to suggestions on how to control the bow without a thruster or spring line if anyone has other ideas. Just remember that I have to dock my RH single screw on the starboard side, so I can not bring the stern toward the dock in reverse.

[comodave]

I am not that familiar with the F26, but is there sufficent depth in the hull forward to get the thruster deep enough into the water to make it effective? It needs to be down far enough so that it will not cavitate by drawing air down from the surface. If it isn't deep enough, you will be wasting a lot of money and not getting enough thrust to move the bow of the boat.

[The Dog House]

I am not that familiar with the F26, but is there sufficent depth in the hull forward to get the thruster deep enough into the water to make it effective? It needs to be down far enough so that it will not cavitate by drawing air down from the surface. If it isn't deep enough, you will be wasting a lot of money and not getting enough thrust to move the bow of the boat.

The hull isn't deep enough to use a Sideshift external thruster, but I'm pretty sure a tunnel thruster would work. I'm going to look more closely at the specifics this weekend.

[ready123]

My home port is side to docking with the current running parallel to the dock at anywhere from 1 mph to 3 mph. Because of the current I do not always have the opportunity to dock port side to. I often have to dock starboard side to in order to have my bow into the current.

The prevailing wind at my home port is also typically off the dock at anywhere from 5 mph to 15 mph. This combination of current and wind makes it difficult to get my F26 next to the dock between two boats (fore and aft) without using spring lines. I typically dock using a bow aft spring line and going forward slowly with the wheel turned away from the dock. This technique works well, with the spring line preventing the bow from running into the boat ahead of me and the rudder moving the stern in next to the dock. If I only boated on days where the wind was pushing me onto the dock or there was no wind, I might go out once per year. That's just not an acceptable solution.

My wife has informed me that sometime in the future (think 5 years in the future) she will not be comfortable standing on the bow as I dock the boat. My two choices are figure out how to dock this boat without a bow spring line or replace this boat with something else. Knowing how much the wind pushes the bow off the dock in my typical scenario (5 mph - 15 mph wind), I don't think I'll be able to get the boat next to the dock without controlling the bow somehow. I'm open to suggestions on how to control the bow without a thruster or spring line if anyone has other ideas. Just remember that I have to dock my RH single screw on the starboard side, so I can not bring the stern toward the dock in reverse.

In the above description you don't say how your wife applies the spring line. Does she get off the boat onto the dock when the bow is near? If so I can understand her concern.
I guess I'm not making myself clear.... why does one need to be on the bow to deploy a spring line? Why can it not be done at the edge of the cabin with a cleat placed on the dock in the right place to accept the line going forward to the boat's bow cleat? The line can be marked with tape to show the correct length required to keep bow away from boat ahead. One approaches placing the fwd fender against the dock with rudder thrown to move stern in and the crew attaches the spring when they can reach out to the dock cleat.... then forward gear can be engaged again to pull stern in against the spring and tie off aft.
Am I really out to lunch looking at this problem? Is the space you have to dock in that tight between boats that this will not work? After a few tries marks can be placed on the dock to aim bow at so that it is repeatable time after time?
If my suggestion will not work... how about having a loop on the end of the spring line that is placed over the dock cleat for spring/docking action only. Here is a tool that many people use to pickup mooring buoys..... your wife will not need to leave the boat! Which is always my preference....
http://space.io9.com/this-mooring-tool- ... 1626082862
http://www.richgraphicdesign.com/mm/slipmate.html

[The Dog House]

My wife does not need to leave the bow to apply the spring line. We're using a device called the docking stick ( www.dockingstick.com ) to deploy the spring line. The boat is 28 feet long (including swim platform) and the spring line is 14 feet from the bow chock to the end of the loop. The boat hook we are using is approximately 10 feet long, and my wife attaches the spring line to the cleat in the middle of our dock space when I get the boat close enough. It's a very simple evolution when the crew is standing on the bow.

On the F26, the cockpit is 2/3 of the way back from the bow. If the wind is blowing, by the time the cockpit is within 10 feet of the dock the bow has already been blown away from the dock if no spring line was used. The geometry for a fixed line doesn't work. One approach I'm going to explore (I haven't done the geometry yet) is using a variable length line off of the midships cleat by running the line from the end of the boat hook to the midships cleat and then back to the stern cleat. In theory, more than 14 feet of line can be used to secure a cleat at the back end of the dock space. As the stern is brought in to the dock, the line can be pulled in from the cockpit to shorten the line to the necessary 14 feet. The bow will still be blown off the dock a little bit, but an aft spring line from the midships cleat and a forward spring line from the stern cleat should stabilize the boat enough to allow me to shut down the engine and secure the lines. I'm going to do some geometry homework and if the numbers work out, I'll try this approach next Spring and see how it works. Stay tuned.

[ready123]

My wife does not need to leave the bow to apply the spring line. We're using a device called the docking stick ( http://www.dockingstick.com ) to deploy the spring line. The boat is 28 feet long (including swim platform) and the spring line is 14 feet from the bow chock to the end of the loop. The boat hook we are using is approximately 10 feet long, and my wife attaches the spring line to the cleat in the middle of our dock space when I get the boat close enough. It's a very simple evolution when the crew is standing on the bow.

On the F26, the cockpit is 2/3 of the way back from the bow. If the wind is blowing, by the time the cockpit is within 10 feet of the dock the bow has already been blown away from the dock if no spring line was used. The geometry for a fixed line doesn't work. One approach I'm going to explore (I haven't done the geometry yet) is using a variable length line off of the midships cleat by running the line from the end of the boat hook to the midships cleat and then back to the stern cleat. In theory, more than 14 feet of line can be used to secure a cleat at the back end of the dock space. As the stern is brought in to the dock, the line can be pulled in from the cockpit to shorten the line to the necessary 14 feet. The bow will still be blown off the dock a little bit, but an aft spring line from the midships cleat and a forward spring line from the stern cleat should stabilize the boat enough to allow me to shut down the engine and secure the lines. I'm going to do some geometry homework and if the numbers work out, I'll try this approach next Spring and see how it works. Stay tuned.

I think you are making this more complicated than it needs to be by going the variable line route.
From your numbers above the dock cleat you use for spring seems to be at about midships...... why not move it nearer the aft of the dock space, so your wife can reach it with the dockingstick from the cockpit.
You say cockpit will be 10 feet away... why not reduce angle of approach so you are closer, or is the aft boat that wide beamed? How much space is available between both boats? If you are maintaining engine revs why is the bow blowing away? With a bow fender in place one could hold the boat against the dock against wind under power. Once the spring is on and you have powered stern in and maintained power on against the spring (so both bow and stern will remain alongside the dock) then your wife can step ashore and go fwd to attach a bow line to shore cleat then return to do the stern line while you maintain helm and engine thrust. One could also do that procedure using a midship cleat on the boat and a line left on the dock from an aft dock cleat to bring boat alongside under power and maintain power till other lines have been deployed.
From your description above I'm not sure you keep power on as long as you could......
Does this make sense? Does it sound doable?

[vabeach1234]

Dog House,

Check out this youtube video. Obviously things are little different between a wood boat model on a towel and the real world but I thought you might gain something from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUMocc1_4w


Here's another link that gives some good info.
http://dunncruisingguide.com/ddunn/BoatHandling.htm

[K4282]

Dog House, we talked awhile back about all this spring line docking you do, and I mentioned that I had a Silverton 26 prior to my first Trojan F32, sold it to a friend, shes still around, reading the comments the depth of this thruster may be a issue but let me ask you is it worth the investment to these older boats? Those stern thrusters I believe are much lower priced and should help with the prop wash, I dock my Silverton in varying conditions, and back out of some tight slips, just need to be fast with gas/transmission and commit/know how the boat will react

[ready123]

Dog House,
Check out this youtube video. Obviously things are little different between a wood boat model on a towel and the real world but I thought you might gain something from it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUMocc1_4w

Thanks for that....
A picture is worth all the words I used and more.
Still see no reason to add any hardware like a bow thruster, good technique will always get you there under control.
I have watched a guy relying on his thruster kill it's battery power while still not getting the job done in high wind.

[The Dog House]

Here's another link that gives some good info.
http://dunncruisingguide.com/ddunn/BoatHandling.htm

I'm currently using the "Docking With A Bow Line" and "Aft Spring Line" techniques described in this link. They work very well for when the wind is blowing the boat off the dock for docking and onto the dock when leaving the dock, respectively. All other times I don't find it necessary to use a spring line.