Trojan International 10.8 Meter EXPRESS

[summer storm]

Todd, Do you have any photos of the boat out of the water? Napier's bottoms all have a pretty deep V and the stern.

[todd brinkerhoff]

I put some pictures on the thread. Napier had designed the Bertram 37 Convertible (1986 - 1993) prior to his departure in 1990. That boat has a dead rise of 18 degrees. The 10.8 has the same dead rise. After some reading, Bertram was going more conservative on the deep-V to create a little bit more stability. I think the 10.8 express hull looks very close to the 37 convertible minus the lifting strakes, which I'll ask Mr. Dana about. Of course this is based on pictures of the 37 convertible and not actually having one present. The pictures of both boats are on the thread for comparison.

[RWS]

looking forward to the next chapter...

RWS

[todd brinkerhoff]

If anyone has contact info for Dave Napier, it would be helpful

[todd brinkerhoff]

I haven't contributed to this thread in awhile. I apologize for those of you not interested. My only goal is to try to find a location that I can memorialize this very rare Trojan boat. As we continue on in time, less and less will be saved. This is not the article, but was copied by me from the November 1990 edition of Boating magazine. The New Trojan 10.8 Meter Express was tested. I apologize, as Word does not transfer very well. Any mistakes are my fault, as my eyes were hurting from trying to retype this whole article. At any rate, enjoy!

Magazine: Boating
Issue: November, 1990
Test #: 627
Pages: 59-62
Author: Allen D. Barrien
Title: Hopelessly Devoted – Trojan’s new International is more than an infatuation

What distinguishes a good boat from a great one?

The easiest way to know you have a great one is, if after six months or a year, you’re falling deeper in love. Not still in love, mind you, but falling deeper.

The new International 10.8 Meter Express Cruiser from the Trojan Division of Bertram-Trojan, Inc. would pass that acid test. The reason is simple: Unless you cruise seven days a week, you’ll still be discovering nice design features after a season or two. These folks truly sweat the details.

Larry Warner is Trojan’s Chief Engineer. There aren’t too many people from the marine industry who have been working for the same company for 35 years. Come to think of it, there aren’t too many boat companies that have existed for that long. Larry is such a man. Trojan is such a company. If you’re buying a boat, all of this matters.

Larry and his team are justifiably proud of the fact that, for the first time in many years, the tooling and mold development work on a new model was done in-house. That called for lofting this new 36-footer from plans into three dimensions – almost a lost art. Few boatbuilders do this work themselves; its’ almost always farmed out to a handful of companies.

The philosophy of Trojan’s engineering department (it pervades the company) is self sufficiency. This company was heavy into vertical integration before it became a fashionable business buzzword. Instead of getting major components, such as fuel tanks and bowrails, from distant suppliers, they cultivate working relationships with local suppliers. In some cases, Trojan even invests in these small companies so they can acquire state-of-the-art equipment and techniques. Sometimes they just hire the talent and bring it under the Trojan tent. This affords the company greater control, which is important for quality.

As an example, consider the 360’s carpeting. Instead of trimming the raw edges with sewn-on tape, as is a common practice, Trojan takes the more costly measure of serging. Its’ a more durable, whip-stitched edge treatment, typically seen in pricey imported cars, and rarely in boats. Trojan bought the machine to do the sewing in-house. They even serged round edged pieces, something the machine’s representatives said couldn’t be done. Nice work I might add.

No Comparison

This is not window dressing by the way. Carpets are serged for good reason. The International family of boats is not designed to only look Eurostyle. About 25 percent of the International line is sold overseas, mostly in the world’s most critical Eurostyle market, Europe.

The market niche for Trojan International is comprised of the same folks who tool around in luxurious imported cars. These boatbuyers expect components and materials, and a higher level of fit and finish. They also expect to pay more, which they do. The base price of this boat is $193,000. By my reckoning, a fully appointed 10.8 Meter, such as the one we tested, retails for $234,780, quite a chunk of change.

At first glance, there seems to be several boats to compare with the 10.8, but a closer examination shows otherwise. There are a number of boats with Eurostyle elements (the Sea Ray 370 immediately comes to mind), but don’t confuse fundamentally American-style boats with a thoroughbred Mediterranean express cruiser like the Trojan. In the final analysis, there is one other company building boats in this style; Sunseeker.

Sunseeker’s 36 Martinique is most comparable to the 10.8 Meter. In the presence of either you are immediately overwhelmed with the Mediterranean flavor; it’s the real thing. I’m not talking about glitz. If the purpose of glitz is to tell everyone you’ve arrived, the understated look of this Trojan is to remind yourself of the same fact, and that is much more satisfying.

However, the Sunseeker is a foot narrower than the 10.8 and has stern-drive power (both items explain the lower base price of $170,000). To my mind, the Trojan’s V-drive inboard and wider beam (13’ 1 ½ “) put her in a different class. The distinction between the civilized go-fast, like the Sunseeker, and the express cruiser is subtle, but there is a distinction.

Sensible Changes

Since the state of the art doesn’t stand still, neither do Trojan International designs. The 10.8 is a member of the International family, but numerous details are handled differently from existing models. For example, Trojan commissioned an Italian designer – Fulvio de Simoni – to conceptualize the superstructure and hull styling details. The result is a handsome, seasoned design that really looks right. I find these lines refreshing. In fact, the 10.8 is almost spare and military in its’ correctness, with just enough soft lines to keep the civilians happy.

The 10.8’s running bottom is another step away from the International designs of yore, which all feature the Delta Conic design. On the new boat, the after sections have been flattened and the chines have been narrowed, through they’re still quite wide.

In most ways, the boat behaves very much like the other Internationals. Compared to the Trojan 11 Meter (November, 1989), this boat ran slightly less bow high (4.8 degrees vs. 5.5 degrees). Both the 10.8 Meter and the 11 Meter were tested with the same power – Crusader 502’s – But the 10.8 Meter ran .3 knots slower (34.9) at top end (4600). However, reduction ratio’s a prop sizes were quite different.

Back to the drawing board?

Looking over this boat’s performance, one thing is clear; the 502-cid engine has not become the de facto prime mover in gasoline inboard power. In order for it to do so, something must be done to curb its’ appetite for fuel.

The 502 develops 18 percent more propshaft horsepower than the 454. In the real world (say this Trojan’s engine room) a pair of them provides an incremental speed increase of 6 percent (maybe 8 percent on a good day). The increase in fuel? Twenty to Forty percent in testing.

The compact Chrysler derived V-10 gasoline powerplant is said to be in the offing. (Say, how about a V-12 made from a pair of Valiant/Dart slant 6’s? Now that would be legendary).

Portable Riviera

The cockpit design is eminently suited for entertaining and doesn’t waste a bunch of space on a sunpad (it’s of the foredeck). There are four ways to enter the cockpit: Two stern boarding gates from the platform, and two boarding steps that are hinged and disappear into the in-wales. The transom lounge can accommodate eight guests. An optional wet bar module is to port, against the radar arch.

Trojan has covered some new territory with the radar arch. When the standard bimini top is not needed, it gets rolled and tucked into the open front of the arch. A cover get snaps into place to hide the works. This brings boat tops up to the level of classy convertible car tops, a la BMW. Nice touch!

Because of the generous cockpit seating aft, Trojan didn’t install a companion seat on the raised bridge-deck. This allows a huge companionway to port and a wide helm seat to starboard.

The helm is a knockout. Legible white-on-black VDO instruments are sealed and set flush into a milk-white acrylic panel. One hour meter, a rudder-position indicator, and a VDO flux-gate compass are standard. The tack/engine synchronizer is a desirable option ($220). The center portion of the panel contains a silk-screen area with marked, lighted switches and boat legend activity panel with LED indicators. Boat Leveler tabs area standard, as is Hynautic Hydraulic steering and cast-aluminum wheel (finished white, to match the rest of the boat’s hardware).

The port of the control panel, a locking electronics panel with a well-gasketed door can house a large loran, a VHF and depthsounder. Three distinct drinkholders are set into the flat area abaft the locker.

Lap of Luxury

Slide the companionway door aside, and follow five curved steps into the main cabin. Below, the look is understated elegance. Although the countertops were covered with faux granite laminate, for the most part the materials and surfaces are comfortable and not too severe. The seating surfaces are covered with nice (yet durable, they tell me) Ultra suede, a light charcoal in our test boat.

Trojan furnishes plenty of hatches and each one has novel slide-away set of screens and privacy panels. There are no less than 37 small halogen lamps overhead throughout the interior. The lighting circuits are arranged so that these lights can be switched on in banks, depending on where the light is needed.

To starboard, the galley includes a Tappan microwave oven and two-burner Kenyon electric cooktop, plus a jet-black sink with Grohe sprayhead faucet. A large Norcold dual-voltage refrigerator/freezer is disguised to look like one of the other foam-cored laminate trimmed cabinet doors. Drawer and cabinet storage is all around.

A convertible dinette to port provides room for four. It’s a great place to watch the optional ($1000) TV. The rugged Panasonic d.c. model is mounted in the upper reaches of the galley cabinetry.

Thanks to her V-drive power arrangement (inboard engines are backed up near the transom), the Trojan’s interior layout includes a mid-cabin suitable for life-size, grown-up, real people. On other boats, this space winds up being used as a trunk for luggage. Not so here. A privacy curtain separates the space from the mid-cabin and there’s plenty of hanging and cabinet stowage space. A carbon monoxide sniffer/monitor is standard.

Clean Me Up, Scotty

The head is easy-to-clean, one-piece molded design. There’s access from the main cabin and the forward stateroom. The MSD is a tried-and-true Mansfield Vacu-flush, but its built in to the commode with hinged lid. When closed, its’ a stable seat that completely fills the space between the aft bulkhead and the lavatory. When open it makes cleaning around the MSD easy. A clever treatment that’s probably worth copying.

The shower if from another world. Reminiscent of the “transporter” in Star Trek, its’ circular pod with a cylindrical sliding door. Water drains into the automatic sump through the gap that surround the Pirrelli rubber flooring pad.

The forward stateroom is opulent, as you’d expect. Five-inch thick pedestal bed mattress with portside hanging locker and hinged-lid compartment port and starboard. Although I suspect that every 10.8 will be ordered with the optional genset and air conditioning, and overhead hatch and a pair of screened opening opening ports with drapes are included. There is a CO monitor in this cabin.

What Makes It Go

Access to the engine room is through one of two hatches. The first is a smaller center section of the transom bench. A gas strut makes it easy to open up, so you can duck down to check fluids or perform a sniff test. For extended work, hit the electric lift switch at the helm. The entire aft cockpit lifts up. The safety conscious Trojan engineers provided reassuring hold-open struts. Well done. So are the other engine room details. Good duckboards, a handy shelf for oil cans and other sundries, room for a tool chest and so forth. The batteries are housed in fiberglass chests and secured down low on the centerline. The 10.8 sports a new (To Trojan) sea chest arrangement for water inlets. All are grouped together and fed from a pocket in the hull bottom by way of the engine room.

The 10.8’s construction is sensible and robust. A pair of conventional stingers run forward from a massive fabricated fiberglass engine room pan/engine bearer. This assembly is bonded to the boat’s hull and includes mounting shelves for the genset and other support equipment.

Surface Appeal

Top-side details are well planned too. For example, areas under cockpit seat cushions and the foredeck mounted sun-pad are ribbed and imperceptibly pitched so water won’t pool underneath. Deck hardware includes a molded-in bow pulpit with anchor roller and six 10” white cleats. All white hardware is stainless steel underneath. The coating is electro-statically deposited, then fused by baking.

As mentioned, Trojan International’s don’t come cheap. As a result, they’re usually not purchased by first-time boatmen. Experience pays and experience costs. When you’re buying decades of experience, the likes of Larry Warner’s, the price seems well within reason.

Then there’s the boat: How can you put a price on falling in love?

[RWS]

This boat was way ahead of it's time.

Sadly there was little production, due to the luxury tax that killed of many boat companies.

It would have been nice to see a real evolution of this series out in the real world.

Todd, few 20+ year old boats are worth repowering. Your unique vessel is certainly WORTHY of a repower.

A couple of Cummins or Yannies in there with bigger props and more lift, well THAT would be LOVE in HEAVEN !

RWS

[RENTNERMARINE]

It would be night and day. It all comes down.to if u love the boat.

[todd brinkerhoff]

These are the emails I received from Former Bertram VP of Engineering regarding the 10.8 Meter Express Hull;

Dear Mr. Brinkerhoff,

I was not the one who designed the hull of your boat. I was Chief Engineer with Bertram Yacht in Miami. I retired in 1990 and started my own business, Lee Dana and Associates, a consulting firm. However the last year I was with Bertram we did do some hull design for Trojan. I may be able to help you if you could send me a picture of the hull.

I regret that I can not give you a lot of detail about your boat, but may remember something about the hull design. As I understand your note, you are looking for any information you can get about the Express.

I have retired from my own business, but will be happy to answer any questions that I can or be of help in any way.

Regards,

Lee W. Dana

Response after I sent pictures of the boat

Dear Tim.

I'm sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner. We had to have our computer in the shop and were away over the holiday.

Your Trojan Express hull looks like one that was designed by Bertram and was built at Trojan facilities. David Napier did most of the design of our hulls. and I have lost contract with him.

If you have specific questions, feel free to contact me by phone or email. I really don't know much about the boat except that we did do some hull design for Trojan before I left Bertram.

Regards,

Lee Dana

Ph: 772-231-5027

[JJB-NL]

Hello Todd,

I intend to buy a boat. Searching for the right one, I saw this advertisement in The Netherlands.
http://link.marktplaats.nl/a1007983434
However the text is in Dutch, with Google you probably can translate to English.
I assume this is the same boat as you write about so much in this topic.
Can you confirm that, and if so, what do you think about the text and the pics?

I intend to take a look at this boat, however due to as it is from 1991, I have some doubts.
Is it true, like the seller says in his advertisement, that a real Trojan is better then brands like Searay and also the Carver versions?

Best greetings from Holland,

John

[todd brinkerhoff]

Hi John,

Yes, that is the same model boat. I believe that boat has been on this forum before. The boat looks really nice. It is also has the diesel version. The engine is the Caterpillar 3116, 300 hp. I don't have a lot of information on the engine, but if I had the option, it would be to own the diesel version. I see they have made some nice upgrades. Do you have the HIN #?

It's a great boat, but just beware, you will be chasing issue associated with a 25 year old boat. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions. The best part of owning a Trojan boat is this awesome forum. I promise you that you will not find a better group of boat owners.

[JJB-NL]

Hi Todd,

Thanks for your reply.
Indeed, I think with you that this boat was spoken before on this forum. The seller is called Peter, which is the same name as the person who spoke 2 years ago with you. He posted 2 messages including the HIN-number.
I hope to go to see the boat next weekend. At the moment the turbo's are replaced by new ones.... Which is a good start.

Did you get more info about this boat 2 years ago from this Peter?

Best regards,

John

[todd brinkerhoff]

The only thing I got was that it is probably the only 10.8 meter in the Netherlands. Make sure you get a survey and that a diesel mechanic checks the motors. Plan on changing out the systems (ie: plumbing, thru-hulls, toilet rebuild etc. if it hasn't been done already). As I said, the boat from the pictures looks well maintained, with some nice updates. No matter what, you must understand that u are looking at a 25 year old boat. But is one of very few "New" Trojan Internationals with a new hull and design. I get lots of looks from both Trojan and Non Trojan folks because neither group has seen this boat. I've had Trojan International owners tell me that this is not a Trojan, until they see the Lancaster, PA placard. It's a very unique boat.

Good luck. Best part, you become part of the Trojan family.

[todd brinkerhoff]

The 10.8 Meter Express is the only International with V-drives (specifically a remote v-drive), with the gas version using the Walter V-drive, and the Diesels using the ZF v-drive. One of the main reasons for utilization of the V-drive is gaining space. Below is a decent article on some of the benefits of the V-drives, although, you do lose efficiency.

http://www.sbmar.com/articles/why_v_dri ... hy_remote/

[barry greenberg]

Hello Gentlemen,
I have been following this forum for some time now. My wife and I have been looking very hard for a 10 meter mid cabin for about a year now.
Only recently has the 10.8 meter express of 1990 and 1991 come to our attention due to the reporting here on this forum. Yesterday we did drive out of state to view what we determined to be SN 002. The date on the transom VIN was '91. The entire # is TRJDN002H091 Z3349. I have a pic of this on my phone but am not sure how to attach it to this post.

We have looked at a bunch of 10 meters now and let me tell you the layout on this model IS fantastic. Yes, I do realize that the 10.8 is 3 ft bigger but this is still a better boat in many ways.

Anyway the boat we looked at had been neglected for some time and was in sad shape. It had been badly misrepresented in the advert by some shady owners. We were extremely disappointed to say the least. Financially, we are not in the position to undertake a restoration. If anyone is interested
I will share the location. The boat is not a complete goner. Definitely, doable.

Boy, I gotta say, if someone were to stick a pair of Yannmars in this thing...WOW would this be a sweet rig!

Anyway, I am happy to belong to your group here and be able to learn and contribute my two cents. Thank you to all here, for the insight you have given to us.

[prowlersfish]

Welcome to the site . Hope you will find a Trojan to suit you