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Onboard battery charger died, where do I get another???
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:46 am
by jwrape
It seems that my onboard charger is dead. My house, gen and one of my motor batteries are VERY low if not dead. I have a car battery charger charging them now.
The gauge on the onboard charger is showing <10amps when it usually is putting out a lot more. I have flipped the breaker on and off and it IS going on and off but not charging well at all.
Where do I get another?
charger
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:26 am
by g36
theres a million chargers on the market today, go to any marine store,internet,walmart just start looking. depending on your battery bank you have lots of choices. make sure it matches the type of batteries you are using. lead acid,agm etc.
Re: charger
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:28 am
by jwrape
g36 wrote:theres a million chargers on the market today, go to any marine store,internet,walmart just start looking. depending on your battery bank you have lots of choices. make sure it matches the type of batteries you are using. lead acid,agm etc.
I have 4 deep cycle 12v batteries, one for the GenSet, one for the House and two for the motors.
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:53 am
by Mac32
I purchased one from Ebay refurb and it seems to work pretty go so far and the price was right.
Here is the store.
http://stores.ebay.com/The-ChargerGuy
charger
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:54 am
by g36
heres a link to a 4 bank charger i found just googling.
http://www.chargingchargers.com/marine- ... s/se4.html
i just am asking but 1 house battery on that big of a boat? do you anchor out much? or do you just use your genset all the time? on my f32 i have 4 trojan golfcar batteries for my house bank. we only run the gen for the stove or ac if needed. rest is invertor. i found that just 1 12v deepcycle was pretty much dead if trying to anchor out. the refrigerator was the biggest hog on it so i upgraded now no problem.
Re: charger
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:03 am
by jwrape
g36 wrote:heres a link to a 4 bank charger i found just googling.
http://www.chargingchargers.com/marine- ... s/se4.html
i just am asking but 1 house battery on that big of a boat? do you anchor out much? or do you just use your genset all the time? on my f32 i have 4 trojan golfcar batteries for my house bank. we only run the gen for the stove or ac if needed. rest is invertor. i found that just 1 12v deepcycle was pretty much dead if trying to anchor out. the refrigerator was the biggest hog on it so i upgraded now no problem.
WOW! did you ever hit on a sore subject......
I have had my F44 for a year now and all last season I fought with the ONAN 7.5kw genset non stop. I really never got it running. Ihad it running good once with the new electronic ignition and then somethig when wrong with the control box and now I can't get any power supply from the control box to the coil. I am SO frustrated with it.
I absolutely hate being out without 110v... Gotta keep the fridge cloes all the time to keep it cold while out.
I am considering replacing the GenSet with a inverter and battery bank. If I removed the GenSet I would have 2 house batteries and would add more if needed. I just don't know what I would need to do the swap.
Currently I have a Fridge, Ice maker, New Flat screen TV (Low wattage), Small Microwave and on board A/C that use 110v while out.
We only stay out during the day from 11a to 6-7pm and then go back and dock at night.
I was once told a 3000w inverter and batteries would work for my application but I need advice.
I really want to fix this soon, the GenSet is wore out and needs to go and putting another GenSet in is almost impossible. It would take cutting throught the flooring to re-open the motor hatches and then removing my headliner and removing the huge hatch on top of the salon to winch the old and new gensets in and out.
Got any advice for me, I would greatly appreciate it!
charger
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:19 am
by g36
on your boat stuff listed "Currently I have a Fridge, Ice maker, New Flat screen TV (Low wattage), Small Microwave and on board A/C that use 110v while out."
with what you have listed above the ac unit would be the problem. i saw the other post also. the rest of what you have is really not much of a draw and if you dont spend the night out then you really arent doing much draw for a battery bank. but i dont know about only 1 12v. i like having more capacity the heavier you draw down your batteries the shorter life span they will have. the 3000w would work and you might go smaller 2500w but dont go to small you might stay around that size in case your boating changes and you want to add more stuff. it would be better to have to big an invertor than to have to small of invertor. i like my trojan 6 v batteries but i'm sure other people like there set up.
Re: charger
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:22 am
by jwrape
g36 wrote:on your boat stuff listed "Currently I have a Fridge, Ice maker, New Flat screen TV (Low wattage), Small Microwave and on board A/C that use 110v while out."
with what you have listed above the ac unit would be the problem. i saw the other post also. the rest of what you have is really not much of a draw and if you dont spend the night out then you really arent doing much draw for a battery bank. but i dont know about only 1 12v. i like having more capacity the heavier you draw down your batteries the shorter life span they will have. the 3000w would work and you might go smaller 2500w but dont go to small you might stay around that size in case your boating changes and you want to add more stuff. it would be better to have to big an invertor than to have to small of invertor. i like my trojan 6 v batteries but i'm sure other people like there set up.
Yea, as I am reading up on the swap, it looks like the A/C is the only issue with the swap. We currently do not use the A/C because of the GenSet not working anyways. It might be a sacrafice I'm willing to make to have power out on the water for the rest of my electricity needs.
We could still run fans just the same, just not the A/C. Might be worth it.....
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:26 am
by Wes
Whatever you do, make sure you get a smart charger. Those monitor the batteries and won't fry them by over charging. I'm looking at replacing our charger in the next year or so and I'm looking seriously at the Charles 5000 line.
Wes
Using Inverter all day??
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:27 am
by ready123
So let's do it properly, stop this guessing... size the Inverter you need by looking at the draw of what you want to run. Then you size the batteries to service that Inverter load. Then you size the charger to match those batteries.
Step one: list all items you will run and look at their info plates to see the Volt and amps required. Add them up gives max: amps, now find a good estimate for % that the on off services will run, don't underestimate, this will guide you to minimum battery size.
<comment> If the fridge is old and not well insulated and you use the AC's a lot, which I would expect might be the case in Georgia going the Inverter battery route may cause you more problems if you run the batteries down by more than 50%. Plus to run AC's off an inverter I think you will need a house bank of 4 large batteries.
If I were you I would get the genny serviced by an Onan rep.... I would expect that it can be made to work well for way less $$ than the correct Inverter/battery alternative.
As Murphy lives... you will also find that you WILL begin a weekend out with not fully charged batteries while relying on the Inverter/battery setup... and so be back to where you are now.
My 1977 Onan was brought back to life by the Onan rep. for a reasonable $$ spend.
I would rather rely on a genny anyday.
I do have an Inverter but also have the genny to refresh things.
My weekends are minimum 2 nights and 2 days out though.

Re: Using Inverter all day??
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:42 am
by jwrape
ready123 wrote:
My 1977 Onan was brought back to life by the Onan rep. for a reasonable $$ spend.
I would rather rely on a genny anyday.
I do have an Inverter but also have the genny to refresh things.
My weekends are minimum 2 nights and 2 days out though.

Honestly I would love for my Onan to run properly. It ran beautifully for about 2 days after the new ignition was installed.
You are probably right on getting someone to look at it for me.
The only thing I worry about is that I have replaced the old points with an electronic ignition and they might remove it. I know ONAN purists do not like the electronic ignition option because, although it is a ONAN made part, it wasn't made for a Marine application. It was made for the RV version but there is absolutely NO fire or spark exposed cause it's all sealed, so it's actually safer than the points and condenser set up.
Onan folks are just a little crazy about it. It was hard enough to purchase the parts without them knowing what I was buying it for. One guy wouldn't sell the parts to me, so I called back and pretended to buy them for a RV. Iwas rediculous.
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:57 am
by randyp
Without a genset you'll draw down the one house battery in less than a day. Figure old AC/DC fridges draw 8-10 amp and without good insulation and being in the hot GA sun lets say it runs non stop for 8 hours before you head back to the dock. That's close to 80 amps down the drain, and that doesn't include VHF radio (which can draw a lot if you're transmitting), lights, stereo (big wattage speakers draw sizable amps at DC), etc. I just saw in the West Marine catalog that they recommend 400AH of capacity for the house bank of a 45' boat. This is VERY approximate.
On our puny lil old F-26 I have a house bank of 2 group 29s in parallel for combined 250 Amp Hours and a group 24 starting battery. I have a Charles charger and a Blue Seas ACR (Auto Charging Relay) that monitors the battery banks and insures that I don't drain down my engine battery. Underway or on the charger the ACR monitors the charging rate to all batteries and adjusts as needed. I have wired in a Blue Seas auto switch that really is only used to combine all batteries if needed in an emergency. I leave my 1-2-all-0ff battery switch on "2" (house bank) and never worry. I also wired in a small 600W inverter to handle a fan and lap-top.
I'm one of those crazies that runs a Honda 2000EI generator hung off the swim platform, or on the dock, when I'm on the hook or away from home. This runs the charger, AC side of the fridge, and the trusty Mr Coffee (which at 1500 watts is just about the limit of the little Honda). We spend weekends on the hook at our lake and last year I used this whole system while we were travelling the Erie Canal and spent the night "on the wall" instead of at a town dock. Did I also tell you I have a CO monitor in the cockpit under the hardtop??
I agree about getting the genny refurbished. You have a great boat, and some nice creature comforts on it. Why not enjoy them when you want to?
If it were my boat I'd get 6v golf cart batteries wired in series or 4D or 8D group big boys if you have the room. Then I'd get the genset repaired and also spring for an inverter sized right for the draw of your appliances. The inverter may be the biggest expense on the list so getting the genset repaired may take priority. A decent inverter/charger set up will run you >$1200.
Make the boat a comfortable as you would your own home. Get the stuff fixed that needs fixing and definitely take the advice about sizing your electrical SYSTEM to meet the demands of your boat and your lifestyle.
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:18 am
by jwrape
After thinking about it, the way that the batteries are wired their might be two house batteries. Reason I say this is because the GenSet starter battery and the house battery are wired together in series BUT drawn off them directly. Bascially the generator is wired Positive and Negative on one battery and then the House is wired on posituve and negative on the other battery but they are wired together in series. I suppose this makes them 2 batteries together. I'm not sure how that works.

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:50 am
by randyp
Yep, you're house bank and gen set are wired in parallel, which means the two batteries are like one big battery at 12V. If they were wired in series (pos to neg) you'd have a 24V battery and then the whole shooting match would burn out......
Same with your engine bank.
Now that we know that, what SIZE are those batteries, and what KIND are they? By that I mean, group 24, 29, etc and cranking vs deep cycle.
Your engine bank should be cranking type batteries, with primary use a lot of juice for a short time to start the engines. These batteries don't like to be discharged a lot and then recharged. They'll die that way.
Your house bank should be deep-cycle with plenty of capacity (measured in Amp-Hours or Reserve Amps). The deep-cycle batteries are designed to be discharged and re-charged hundreds of times. That's why many people like 6Volt golf cart batteries because they are designed to carry a lot of amps and can be cycled a lot of times. You have to wire these in SERIES (pos to neg) to make them a 12 volt battery.
For your gen set you really should have a dedicated cranking battery in my opinion. Then you should add a battery to your house bank so your would wind up having 5 batteries - one cranking for each engine (group 24, 27, etc) two deep-cycle for house bank wired in parallel (pos to pos, neg to neg) and one cranking or dual purpose battery for the gen-set.
Finally the AGE of the batteries is important. On your house bank if you have two batteries and one is older than the other, chances are the older one could be going bad and sucking the life out of the newer one.
The good news is that batteries are not all that expensive if you shop around and the deep-cycle ones last years. I have been using group 29 MAXX batteries from Wal Mart (yes Wal Mart) for 8 years now and replace them every 4 years. These are my house banks and they have been great. Each one costs $65 so it's not a biggie.
Get a quote on fixing the genset. A new 40 amp charger might cost you $400-$500, but update the batteries first. You can use cheapie automotive charger for the time being, but a hard-wired smart charger will be a great investment down the road.
It sounds like you're on a budget so here's my recommendation/pecking order.
1. Check out your current battery age and type. Flooded cell batteries are the cheapest and easiest to maintain. There are zillions of marine deep-cycle and cranking batteries out there. Don't be afraid to shop around.
2. Replace batteries where necessary. Keep all batteries the same (flooded-cell, AGM, ,etc) as most chargers need to charge the same type of battery due to voltage specs.
3. Get a quote on repairing the gen set. It sounds like it may be the engine, and maybe alls thats needed is a tune-up, new plugs, etc).
4. If the gen set repair is too expensve of the gen set is toast then look inito a portable generator, but this may not be suitable for the A/C demands at anchor.
5. Replace the charger if it's original.
6. Price out a 2500 Watt inverter/charger. If it make sense to spend $2K on this AFTER you've done everything else then go for it.
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:55 am
by jwrape
[quote="randyp"]
Now that we know that, what SIZE are those batteries, and what KIND are they? By that I mean, group 24, 29, etc and cranking vs deep cycle.[quote]
They are Deep Cycle Batteries with 890 cranking amps
The engine batteries are new as of last season. The house and Genset batteries are 2-3 years old. They are all in good shape.
I will have to get a new charger, the other is not cutting it.
I am calling around right now trying to find a Onan mechanic in the area. So far there is no one in the Lake Lanier area that specializes in Onan gensets, althought Cummins South (Onan Dealership) is right up the street and the service RV Onans but I can't drive my boat up to them for them to service it.