F25 "sanitary" issues

oldboat1 · Post by **oldboat1** » Fri May 04, 2012 11:19 pm

I have a 1980 F25 that went back into the water a couple of days ago. Last year, it was electricals, bilge pumps, caulking, temp. sender/gauges, etc.etc. This year, I would like to understand and fix the head. This boat has a shower and Mansfield head (circa 1979) that appears to sit on a holding tank. There is also a holding tank in the bow. The water supply system appears to work, although the switch needs to be cleaned or replaced (works only if you hit the sweet spot, like a rheostat on an old car). This must be an "on demand" system because the pump comes on (assuming the switch is making contact and the water tank is filled) when I open one of the faucets or the shower control.

There are two 2-pole switches on the rear bulkhead of the head, one for the water pump and a second marked "drain pump", The drain pump doesn't seem to work (could be a switch issue), but I've operated the shower (before the flexible hose decided to start leaking), and the water seems to drain on it's own. I don't know where it goes.

The toilet has a lever on the side of what I take to be the attached holding tank, and depressing the lever opens the drain at the bottom of the bowl. With the water on, water is released with the lever depressed (presumably to clean the bowl), and continues to be released after the drain/flush ball is closed, leaving a small amount in the bowl. The amount seems to be small enough to leave in place to keep the rubber gasket lubricated, but not so much that it would slosh around and out when the boat is under way. Pulling up on the lever doesn't seem to do anything -- doesn't release water into the bowl.

In the bow, there is a hand pump which appears to pump the toilet's holding tank into the main holding tank in the bow. There is also a mascerator pump up there with a switch (i.e., can't operate from the head, as far as I can tell). The pump burned out last year with my assistance (ran it dry). It seems to be plumbed to pump either into the holding tank or out into the lake -- has the T. valve, although I'm not sure how the lever works -- looks like tip of the handle points to which hose is closed off -- choice seems to be the opening to the pump, to the holding tank, or to the through hull.

OK. sorry for the wordiness. I would like to know whether the mascerator pump needs to be replaced if I'm not going to shoot sewage into the lake (which I won't be doing.) Second, does that pump somehow clear the stuff from the toilet holding tank into the bow tank? I'm thinking there is no hose between the pump and the toilet tank (i.e., only a hose out to a thru hull, and one to the bow holding tank.) If that's the case, then the pump is used only to clear the bow tank, and would not be needed.

But I'm thinking there has to be a mascerator pump somewhere between the toilet holding tank and the bow tank, to grind up "solids" and probably to electrically empty the toilet tank to the bow tank.

Sooo... is that inoperable drain switch in the head meant to operate a second mascerator pump somewhere around the head, or does it have something to do with the shower? And what happens to the shower water that seems to drain on it's own?

(think I'll just continue to use the marina bathroom, but the boat system ought to work....)

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sat May 05, 2012 4:38 pm

this is very interesting! So i will start here, can you take pics and post them of your system? I have my 74 F-25, head system all torn apart and its different than yours. My head has a shower pan floor but no shower. Your shower water "grey water" drians right out the side of the boat, as does your sink. Toilet! mine has a pump that goes through hull. I can only dump 3 miles off shore so during this restore I will have to add a new potty and another way to empty the holding tank. Im keeping my through hull system because it is grand fathered in by law. (i think) My potty has its own holding tank, I dont have a spare in the bow or a second pump. that just scares the poop out of me. Not to mention, NOBODY is allowed to POOP on my boat unless they are my wife or children and they are sick! LOL Im looking around like you are maybe we can help each other? hope you get it figured out!

randyp · Post by **randyp** » Sat May 05, 2012 6:13 pm

I've got an F26 but the switches are in the same location and I think function the same. You already know about the water pump switch and I'd replace it if it's getting cranky and old (like the rest of us). The there is for the shower sump, which should be located right behind the bulkhead if you remove the engine hatch and look you should see the filter for this, and yes, it is supposed to pump through a thru-hull out the side of the hull. Your sinks drain via gravity. As for the head I have a Jabsco unit that was installed in the mid-90's and it pumps directly into a holding tank on the starboard side of the engine area. This is fitted to a vent pipe that vents through the side of the hull, and also to a pumpout hose and fitting on the starboard side of the rear deck "flair", and is similar to the location of the fill pipe and vent on the port side for fresh water tank. If you have a holding tank in the bow hooked up to a macerator that's good too, I guess but I'd not want to be sleeping over the holding tank in case things get really stinky in the night. Either way, I'd get that macerator pump fixed as it will make pumpout a lot easier. It seems that if the holding tank is in the bow all that waste has to be pumped uphill, but that's what the macerator pump is for, I guess. My set up is more direct and the waste has a shorter distance to travel into the holding tank and out the discharge (pumpout).

oldboat1 · Post by **oldboat1** » Sat May 05, 2012 9:45 pm

Thanks for the responses. Today I replaced a leaking shower hose, but found that was really unnecessary, and the shower head was partially turned off and the back pressure was creating the problem -- but now the hose is new, anyway.

Jefflaw: I have some pics on my phone, but have to figure out how to do the blueray transfer to my laptop, and then how to post them (know there is an instruction on the site). My email is pyny@verizon.net if you want to reach me. Your system does sound different from mine, which makes me wonder what was standard and what might have been an add-on. Think you are right about the grey water drainage from the shower, as the water in the shower basin cleared on it's own. Like your toilet, mine apparently has a holding tank underneath. It has a 1 1/2 hose in the top rear (guessing at the hose size), and I'm thinking that must be the outflow -- which I think goes in my case to the holding tank in the bow. I seem to be able to use the hand pump up there to empty the toilet holding tank into the bow tank, so that's good. It sounds like your system pumps the toilet tank overboard, but maybe there is a provision for using a pump-out at a marina. My boat has a pumpout fitting on the deck, and I'm thinking no onboard pumps are needed. Somehow, the mascerator pump or pumps must grind up the nasties into the bow holding tank, so it can all be sucked up and out at a clean out station.

randyp: In addition to messing around with the shower plumbing today, I also picked up a couple of switches which I will install. That should make the water pump system work better, but not sure the replacing the drain pump switch will make a difference -- depends on whether the drain pump works, and I don't even know where it is yet. I'll look under the starboard side of the engine compartment area, or maybe see if there is any access in the galley to the area under the head. I agree with your analysis of the uphill climb to the holding tank in the bow, which makes me think there is another pump under there somewhere. It turns out I have a working mascerator pump on hand -- didn't recognize it as a mascerator pump, but did a google search to identify it. So I can replace the inoperative pump up in the bow, or maybe an inoperative one somewhere else in the vicinity of the toilet holding tank (will probably replace whatever non-working pumps there are anyway.) I absolutely agree with your sense that sleeping over a sewage holding tank ain't a great situation -- had some concerns about that from the start, but there is no odor, and I will go over to the pumpout station at some point anyway just to start "fresh." The pump I have in hand (which looks identical to the one in the boat) has about a 3/4 inch outlet, and a larger (1 1/2 inch?) intake. I initially thought it was the other way around (which admittedly wouldn't make much sense), but tested the pump with a pail of water to see what was the inlet and outlet. I have to take another look at the pump in the boat now, though, because I think I was looking at it wrong. I guess it remains possible that the bow pump sucks effluent from the toilet holding tank, and shoots it into the bow tank -- a long draw, in my view, but maybe that's the function. I'm not sure now that there would be a means to shoot the stuff overboard.

jefflaw35 · Post by **jefflaw35** » Sat May 05, 2012 10:17 pm

thanks for the email! im sure we can help each other, Larry Eddington, Im hopeing he doesnt get mad at me for saying this! Has a black berry, I will call him tomorrow and see if he can help you. Im sure its simple!