OK guys... the questions now before you is this: Are the Chrysler 440's worth rebuilding? I've got one pretty good starboard engine, but the port side is shot. Is it worth the rebuild for one, or if I have to go to this much work, yank 'em both and start over? I've never owned the Chrysler motor before. By the way, the block number is 4006630-440-10 so I'm assuming that's the old 440. What's the horsepower on these engines, and what kind of fuel consumption did they ever get?
Thanks!
Ed
One good Chrysler 440 one NOT good
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Danny Bailey
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Chrysler marine 440's are high nickel content blocks with forged steel crankshafts. For pre-fuel injection engines they are as good as they come for durability. Mine were rated at 330 horsepower. Gas economy - if you have to ask, start looking for a sailbote. Mine cruised at about .6 mile per gallon. That's why I pulled them out and am installing 6BTA Cummins.
1980 F-36 with 6BTA 250 Cummins enjoying the Sounds and coastal waters of North Carolina
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TADTOOMUCH
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Fuel Economy Gas vs. Diesel
What is the difference in fuel economy of a Diesel versus and Gas engine. Assuming a yearly cruise of say 400 miles, what is the payback term to break even. If I can't break even in under 5 years then I'll leave my engine swapping money in the stock market and continue to burn gas.
My gut tells me that it will be much longer than 5 years to break even on the Diesel engine investment. Especially on a 30 year old vessel. I assume there is no added value to the boat if I add new engines as the boat will lose value each year after I would have installed the new engines at a rate of $1000.00 per year so in 5 years or so that would negate the new engine investment.
My gut tells me that it will be much longer than 5 years to break even on the Diesel engine investment. Especially on a 30 year old vessel. I assume there is no added value to the boat if I add new engines as the boat will lose value each year after I would have installed the new engines at a rate of $1000.00 per year so in 5 years or so that would negate the new engine investment.
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prowlersfish
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Apple wrote:A "YEARLY" cruise of 400 miles????? Rebuild the 440 and go on with life...
400 miles per year, 1/2 m.p.g, 200 gallons of fuel, $3.75 a gal. $750.00 per season...
Apple...
with deepest sympathy...
Apple that would be 800 gal of fuel per year at .5 mpg and $3000.00
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
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RWS
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If your engines arfe fine, keep burning the gas.
If your engines are ready to retire, then look at the DIFFERENCE in cost between diesel and gas.
Replace your worn out gas engines with the brand new gas engines and use her for 1-2 seasons, your boat is worth nothing more on resale.
Replace the worn out gas burners with diesels your boat will always be worth the difference between the NEW GAS vs. the NEW DIESELS.
That's when it makes sense.
Fuel economy is only ONE issue.
The others are: Higher cruise and WOT as well as better RANGE not to mention the explosion issue.
With the 454's we would have to refuel on a trip to Key West, resulting in a detour and with a best economical cruise speed of 15-16 kts, a 14 hour trip.
NOW we can make the run on 1/2 tank of fuel with no stops in 7 hours.
It's not a race, and we enjoy the leisurely pace, however we can DO MORE and SEE MORE running at 22 kts with double the range, without the stops.
Sounds simple and it is !
RWS
If your engines are ready to retire, then look at the DIFFERENCE in cost between diesel and gas.
Replace your worn out gas engines with the brand new gas engines and use her for 1-2 seasons, your boat is worth nothing more on resale.
Replace the worn out gas burners with diesels your boat will always be worth the difference between the NEW GAS vs. the NEW DIESELS.
That's when it makes sense.
Fuel economy is only ONE issue.
The others are: Higher cruise and WOT as well as better RANGE not to mention the explosion issue.
With the 454's we would have to refuel on a trip to Key West, resulting in a detour and with a best economical cruise speed of 15-16 kts, a 14 hour trip.
NOW we can make the run on 1/2 tank of fuel with no stops in 7 hours.
It's not a race, and we enjoy the leisurely pace, however we can DO MORE and SEE MORE running at 22 kts with double the range, without the stops.
Sounds simple and it is !
RWS
Ooooppssss!... Sorry...too much of the "Holiday Cheer"...Funny though, It just didn't seem right at the time. Unless you only have 2 weeks of warm weather, 400 miles in a season doesn't sound like a lot. This season, diesel was @$2.60 a gal. and gas was @$3.50. RWS is correct about the other considerations. Like I explained in a previous post, it's not an investment. If you are going to keep it for a long time and put the hours on it, diesel. Short hops and low hours, I think the expense would outweigh the practicallity. The initial cost of a diesel conversion boggles the mind, but it was the right choice for me. By doing my own conversion, I kept @ $30k in my pocket. Low maintenance, less hazardous, longer range, faster cruise, lower cost to operate...This is just my opinion. I hope you don't mind me sharing it with you.
Apple...
PS: I won't calculate under the influence anymore...
Happy Holidays!
Apple...
PS: I won't calculate under the influence anymore...
Happy Holidays!
Thanks for the reply
Many thanks for the advice... Apple, I really like the calculations while under the influence, just too bad they didn't work out. I'm beginning to seriously look toward diesels. Just need to save a little money!
Considering the size of the "box" in which the gas burners currently sit what might fit in the compartment? I'm not a speed freak and don't need to get places fast... heck, I've been sailing for all my previous boating career and this is the first MY! So, anything over 7 knots is screaming on the water for me! Trawler speed will do fine. Any suggestions on the size of diesels?
I looks like this is a planing hull, but would it be too terrible if we only putted along at 8 to 10 knots and enjoyed the ride?
Thanks,
Ed
Considering the size of the "box" in which the gas burners currently sit what might fit in the compartment? I'm not a speed freak and don't need to get places fast... heck, I've been sailing for all my previous boating career and this is the first MY! So, anything over 7 knots is screaming on the water for me! Trawler speed will do fine. Any suggestions on the size of diesels?
I looks like this is a planing hull, but would it be too terrible if we only putted along at 8 to 10 knots and enjoyed the ride?
Thanks,
Ed
Just curious, if you saved $30K, what did you spend? My 454s have < 2 seasons on them so I'm not in a big hurry, but some day, I'm sure I'll get to the point before I cruise down the Mississippi to the gulf for the last time where the diesels will need to go in....
Current Fleet:
2000 Carver 450 Voyager
1991 Thompson 21' Carerra Cuddy
1994 Scout 15'
2005 Caribe LCX9 dingy
1981 16' Hobicat
Former Owner - 1973 Trojan F-36 "Light and Variable"
2000 Carver 450 Voyager
1991 Thompson 21' Carerra Cuddy
1994 Scout 15'
2005 Caribe LCX9 dingy
1981 16' Hobicat
Former Owner - 1973 Trojan F-36 "Light and Variable"
LandVF36...This is a post from Oct 27, 2007 Repower 10 meter
I am about 95% complete on repowering a 10 Mtr. Sedan with 330 Cummins ReCons. I did the job myself, with some help from my father, my 2 sons, and a friend at my marina. I did all the fabrication work in my garage at home. All the brackets and new engine beds are fabbed using stainless and were all hand made. I am fortunate enough to have a friend that owns a marina and he got me most of the accessories at cost. The engines and GenSet came from Richard Sutton at Cummins Power Systems in Glen Burnie, Md.
(2) 330 Cummins ReCon engines with TwinDisc 5055A Down angle gear (1) 9 Kw Onan GenSet
2" Groco strainers and Seacocks
New 1 1/2" shafts, cutlass bearings, PSS Shaft seals
A lot more stuff and plenty of time added to the mix.
Done mostly on weekends with a few days off during the week, the job took about a year to complete. I also rehabbed the entire fresh water system and replaced the water heater. So far, I'm @ $55000 and there is no way to put a price on the time invested. Keep in mind, I did the work... not a contractor. Outsource the work and you're looking at a much larger figure.
I'm located in Baltimore and just this summer took the family to Ocean City for a week. Her first "official" shake down cruise. Fishing... scuba diving...What a BLAST! Am I happy with the job? You bet. Would I do it again? You bet. I would have to mortgage the house if I wanted to do that with 454s. 1.62 mpg at a 20 kt. cruise. The boat weighs in now @ 20K# Full. Based on 5 people,full water,full fuel, gear, food, BEER, full Scuba gear for 3 w/ 6 tanks. dinghy, motor, spare everything, and, oh yes, can't forget that 6 foot SMILE on my face...I've owned her for 12 years and love her more now than when I bought her. Plan a long term relationship if you expect to see any return on your investment. The joy of that trip with my family and the safety and security of diesel power was return enough for me.(...sounds like an advertisement.) Best of luck.
Regards,
Apple...
'''Pauper's Paradise'''
Baltimore, Maryland
I am about 95% complete on repowering a 10 Mtr. Sedan with 330 Cummins ReCons. I did the job myself, with some help from my father, my 2 sons, and a friend at my marina. I did all the fabrication work in my garage at home. All the brackets and new engine beds are fabbed using stainless and were all hand made. I am fortunate enough to have a friend that owns a marina and he got me most of the accessories at cost. The engines and GenSet came from Richard Sutton at Cummins Power Systems in Glen Burnie, Md.
(2) 330 Cummins ReCon engines with TwinDisc 5055A Down angle gear (1) 9 Kw Onan GenSet
2" Groco strainers and Seacocks
New 1 1/2" shafts, cutlass bearings, PSS Shaft seals
A lot more stuff and plenty of time added to the mix.
Done mostly on weekends with a few days off during the week, the job took about a year to complete. I also rehabbed the entire fresh water system and replaced the water heater. So far, I'm @ $55000 and there is no way to put a price on the time invested. Keep in mind, I did the work... not a contractor. Outsource the work and you're looking at a much larger figure.
I'm located in Baltimore and just this summer took the family to Ocean City for a week. Her first "official" shake down cruise. Fishing... scuba diving...What a BLAST! Am I happy with the job? You bet. Would I do it again? You bet. I would have to mortgage the house if I wanted to do that with 454s. 1.62 mpg at a 20 kt. cruise. The boat weighs in now @ 20K# Full. Based on 5 people,full water,full fuel, gear, food, BEER, full Scuba gear for 3 w/ 6 tanks. dinghy, motor, spare everything, and, oh yes, can't forget that 6 foot SMILE on my face...I've owned her for 12 years and love her more now than when I bought her. Plan a long term relationship if you expect to see any return on your investment. The joy of that trip with my family and the safety and security of diesel power was return enough for me.(...sounds like an advertisement.) Best of luck.
Regards,
Apple...
'''Pauper's Paradise'''
Baltimore, Maryland
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Danny Bailey
- Moderate User
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:44 pm
- Location: Oriental, NC
A pleasure boat is a hobby not an investment. The decision to go diesel for 100 - 300 hours of use per year is an emotional one, not financial. If your objective is cheapest cost per hour of recreational use, gas is the ticket. I just like diesels.
1980 F-36 with 6BTA 250 Cummins enjoying the Sounds and coastal waters of North Carolina
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prowlersfish
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- Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:56 pm
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