10 Meter Mid Cabin "Refresh"

[BobCT]

What is driving the rebuild? Do you have any physical damage? I know you had a little coolant/oil mixing but the insides of your engines look great. I would reseal and put them back together. There are a litany of stories online from people in a similar position. They wind up trading a minor problem in for a nightmare (i.e., installing two rebuilt long locks).

If it were me, I would do whatever it takes to keep your blocks.

Bob

[zedtwentyate]

What is driving the rebuild? Do you have any physical damage? I know you had a little coolant/oil mixing but the insides of your engines look great. I would reseal and put them back together. There are a litany of stories online from people in a similar position. They wind up trading a minor problem in for a nightmare (i.e., installing two rebuilt long locks).

If it were me, I would do whatever it takes to keep your blocks.

Bob

Thanks for the insight Bob. The main driver of the rebuild was the blown rear main seal on one of the motors. Since I was going to have to take one out, I figured I'd take them both out for a little refresh.

I'm having a hard time contemplating putting them back in with just a new set of seals and gaskets. I just figured while I have the opportunity, I should do a little more work. As I was pricing out machining/cleaning and new gaskets and seals, I found the cost to be within range of some new long blocks. It's a conundrum of sorts. I'd like to not be doing this again next year because I opted to skip something this year.

The motors only have 745 hours on them.

[Big D]

I'm assuming since I don't see any heat exchangers that you boat in fresh water. If not, that would make the decision easier. I'd also consider how many hours you put on the boat every season. If you do 100-200 hours every year, then you might be going through this again five years from now. Can't do it now that it's torn down but I always recommend doing some diagnostics before hauling an engine out unless it's had a major failure to help determine whether they warrant complete rebuilds or long blocks. A couple of easy tests like compression and vacuum would go a long way in helping make that decision.

You can change up some things while they're out just to be on the safe side but how do you decide where to stop? Short of taking it down further and taking measurements, all you can do is a visual check and hope for the best based on what you can see. Consider going over things that you can't get at once they're back in the boat like the oil pumps, not a common failure but it does occur or the flex plate, now would be the time to check their condition. Anything like that warrants closer inspection.

I agree with Bob, unless you experienced runability issues or noises that sounded like the result of possible internal problems, I'd stick with what you know to be good engines. You don't know what you'll get with long blocks. If she's always been in fresh water, I'd rebuild those instead of getting long blocks. Just because they're long blocks doesn't mean they'll be trouble free.

[BobCT]

I have about 1,300 hours on my original 454's and they don't use any oil to speak of. I have a couple of oil drips here and there, really nothing to speak of. All the seals are original expect for the valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets and one transmission output seal all of which I did. I add about 1/2 QT over the course of a season (80 hours?) and that's really just to keep a bit higher on the full side, I could probably not add any. I know you had that milkshake oil issue but under the intake manifold looks great, just like my engines. Zero sludge which leads me to believe they had pretty good maintenance.

I "think' I'm still a long ways away from needing to do anything with my engines but I have already pre determined that no way, no how am I ever parting with the blocks I have. At most, I'll pull them for a new rear main seal, oil pan gasket stuff like that. Short of that, I'll do a valve job if needed and leave the engines installed. In the meantime, I've replaced every consumable part on both engines except for the heat exchangers and coolant water pumps. Apparently, they almost never go and give a lot of warning if they do.

That's my story. I'm throwing that out there because your engines have a lot few hours than mine. I know, hours can be meaningless on boat engines but all things being equal, you should have many years left from just a wear and tear standpoint. Let's put it another way. Even if you did have an "issue", it's not going to be TWO issues at the exact same time between both engines. Deal with that, when and if it comes. Odds are really high it won't be a lower end issue in which case you can deal with it in the boat and you'll have already replaced all the lower end seals.

That's my thought.

Bob

[zedtwentyate]

Thanks for the insight Big D and Bob...

All of this makes sense to me. I'm still struggling to think about putting these things back in without replacing everything! I'm glad to hear that keeping the original crusader blocks makes sense. I wasn't sure if there was value in having those blocks as originals. Everything I've read says they are bulletproof lower halves.

Would you bother having the heads cleaned up and machined if necessary? A shop close to me will do one set of heads for $400.

The milkshake isn't as concerning as i originally thought. From what I can tell, it was a simple leaking intake manifold gasket. There's also a chance that it came from transport and haul out as it was raining that day.

The motors have been in fresh water there entire life. Started on Lake Michigan in 89 and went to lake Ontario in the 90's. The boat spent the last 18 years in the Finger Lakes region of Upstate NY.

[Big D]

....Would you bother having the heads cleaned up and machined if necessary? A shop close to me will do one set of heads for $400....

It wouldn't hurt but what are you getting for the $400? The valve train is likely the end that will need attention in the near future. Having said that, if there's no valve train noise and a visual inspection by someone who knows what they're looking for doesn't reveal any red flags, then consider that they can be removed while in the boat. The decision is whether you want to be proactive or not. A failure here can have serious repercussions in the lower end.

[zedtwentyate]

....Would you bother having the heads cleaned up and machined if necessary? A shop close to me will do one set of heads for $400....

It wouldn't hurt but what are you getting for the $400? The valve train is likely the end that will need attention in the near future. Having said that, if there's no valve train noise and a visual inspection by someone who knows what they're looking for doesn't reveal any red flags, then consider that they can be removed while in the boat. The decision is whether you want to be proactive or not. A failure here can have serious repercussions in the lower end.

Hmmm....

To be proactive or not to be...that is the question...

In everything else in life, trend would say I throw caution to the wind and lack a certain amount of proactive-ness. Maybe in 2017 I'm looking for a change!

I think for $400 i'm getting some light machining and checking of valve guides and tolerances and replacement if needed. The valves themselves would not be included in that.

[WayWeGo]

Another option is to pull the heads and visually inspect them. If all else is good, a quick lap job and maybe new seals and reinstall. Not much money and a chance to see what you have.

One thing I would definitely do while the engines are out is to clean and paint the bilge, and to paint the engines, even if I didn't take them apart.

[zedtwentyate]

My heads are back! A bunch of new valve guides and springs and we're back in action....almost time for reassembly!

[oil&water]

Four good looking bags right there!

[zedtwentyate]

Just a little update on my progress...and a nice list of parts i've replaced...

Heads have been completely reworked with a valve job.
Intake manifold was dipped, cleaned and prepped for paint
Quadrabogs have been rebuilt by a guy named Cliff Ruggles - I think a few of you have his book!
2 new Oil Coolers are in the mail
4 exhaust manifolds and riser are en route to my local marina. Elbows will be reused.
1 new timing set for the standard rotation motor
32 new lifters!
16 new spark plugs
All new cooling hoses
New head bolts!
2 new rear main seals
2 new front oil seals
Gaskets, Gaskets, Gaskets!

I'm sure there is more, but that's all I can remember right now. I've started the lower assembly and next weekend will be the upper half going back together! I'm feeling the pressure!

[Barrie]

Sounds like a fun project for winter, but now that the weather is getting better...not fun anymore

Good luck with it!

[prowlersfish]

Glad its coming together

[WayWeGo]

You're getting there, won't be long now...

[zedtwentyate]

Sounds like a fun project for winter, but now that the weather is getting better...not fun anymore

Good luck with it!

Ya know, I really thought that we had a few more weeks of winter. I've been procrastinating and now i'm in a rush to get these things back together!