Are they REALLY new engines? And more.....

P-Dogg · Post by **P-Dogg** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:45 pm

So I made a few trips to look at Tricabs. The least-worst one I found purports to have "new" engines. I'm asking the seller hard questions about what that really means, but in the meantime, take a look at some pictures if you don't mind.

The boat I'm looking at is at:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... 52531&url=

NOTE: THE PICTURE NUMBER MAY BE DIFFERENT DEPENDING WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE PHOTO GALLERY OR THE LIST OF PHOTOS THAT SHOW ON ONE PAGE.

If you skip on down to photo 18, it is of the port engine. Take a look at the oil filter. I have to tell you, it sure looks like a spray paint overhaul to me. If the engine was actually rebuilt or otherwise worked on outside of the boat (they said that they changed both engines two years agao when they began rebuilding this boat -- the third tricab they have done). The engine hour meters have 21 and 20 hrs on them. Why would the oil filter have engine paint on it? Isn't it typical to mask the oil filter mounting face (with no filter attached) and THEN spray the engine?

While you're on photo 18 (sorry, I haven't mastered the art of getting pictures in my posts yet), take a look at that raw water strainer. Is it normal to screw the strainer directly to the seacock? What about all that cantilevered weight each time the boat slams down off a wave? And what about draining the sediment out with it at such a screwy angle?

Moving on down to photo 22ish (genset and port engine), if the engines were overhauled out of the boat, how did blue spray paint get on the red throttle (?) cable that runs across the front side of the genset over toward the engine? Same thing goes with the cooling hose above the starboard engine in photo 20ish and 23ish.

But wait -- there's more! Take a look at photo 16 (genset), particularly the area around the lettering. See how the lettering is set against a darker background than the rest of the motor? And see how the starter ring has paint on it? This IS DEFINITELY a spray paint overhaul (but the genset is not listed as new or rebuilt at least). Not shown in the same picture are the holes drilled into the bottom of the battery box. Aren't battery boxes supposed to contain spilled acid, and keep it from dissolving the boat?

And as a reward for reading this far, I'll share the fact that there IS NO HOLDING TANK, only the ones in the (Mansfield?) toilet bases. How much do they hold -- 5 gallons? WTF? It's OK though, because the hose connecting the heads to the pump-out fitting are brand new. Because they are, I guess the owner felt no need to secure them anywhere except at their ends with hose clamps, or to provide chafing protection where they penetrated the bulkhead. They also used what appears to be Series 141 Multiflex hose that is shown on page 511 of the 2012 We$t Marine catalog. Says right in the description that it is not for sanitation. Hmmm, I wonder if the $3.59/ price compared to the $21.00 price for real sanitation hose had anything to do with it?

I did learn something about hot water heaters by looking at this boat. Sorry no photo here. The straps that some people think are to hold the tank in place don't really need to be connected -- laying in the bilge beside the tank is OK with this owner. Regarding the electrical connections, I learned that the proper way to attach the 120 VOLT WIRES is to strip the outer insulator of the multi-conductor cable about 6 inches away from the tank, then pinch the two inner conductors between the tank body and the piece of sheetmetal that covers junction box on top -- who needs a strain relief when all you are risking is your life!

I also learned that it is normal practice to have bilge pump switches fouled with wires, pumps not screwed in place -- just resting upright is OK, and to keep the belt for the belt-driven diaphragm pump (which was located at the very back of the bilge and under the mattress -- not the low point when this boat is at rest) off of the pulleys and laying nearby so that you can install it right before you need it, and that a million pieces of carpet fibers left over from installing new carpet will wash down from on top of the engines and everywhere else and act as the bilge pump filter that should be there but is not.

OK, so I've digressed into a rant. I really did want to know how to tell if the engines were new by looking when I started this post, but the more I studied the pictures of the boat, the more disgusted I got. Which is a shame, because this is the first one that I've looked at that didn't smell like a mushroom farm or have spongy decks. Did you see anything else in any of the pictures that is a turn-off? Can you guess how many boats I've owned in my life? And my eternal question, what would you offer for this boat? Thanks, Perry

k9th · Post by **k9th** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:59 pm

I see no mention of a survey - did you have one done? If not that's where I would start. If there are questions about the engines have a trusted mechanic do compression checks and other analytical tests to determine the status of the engines.

The boat appears to be in pretty good shape. I'd be concerned with no holding tank since you will probably need to add one. Other than that, let the survey guide you. Boats are a very subjective purchase. Owners choose the one they purchase based on their own personal likes and dislikes.

Good luck.

willietrojan · Post by **willietrojan** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:19 pm

Chrysler no longer makes Marine Engines so they have to be reman's, also this boat is located at Smith Mountain Lake Va, (Fresh Water) so will not see much rust . They most likely spayed painted the engines

jordan · Post by **jordan** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:01 pm

Somebody has a 1981 Trojan tricabin for sale on Craigslist in Minneapolis for $13,000.00. Looks pretty clean by the pics. Sounds a lot better priced than $38,000.00!

P-Dogg · Post by **P-Dogg** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:04 pm

I have not done a survey, but I of course will before I become the owner. I intend to fly a surveyor that Sir Aaron of Baltimore, who I was fortunate to finally meet in person the other day, recommended down to look at the boat, rather than rely on a surveyor who is local and may be friendly with the marina on the only body of water nearby (boat is landlocked -- shipping quotes have been requested). First I need to come to terms with what for all intents and purposes looks to be an in-the-boat spray paint overhaul with an ad that says "new" engines. While I was waiting to see the listing broker, the guy who greeted me said that when they got the boat (from a guy near Norfolk, I believe) that one engine was shot. He said that rather than sell it with one rebuilt, or new engine (I forget his exact words), and one older engine, that they re-did both engines. I eagerly await what the listing broker has to say....

They apparently got the boat a few years ago (ad says engines were new in 2009) and have had it on the hard since then while they were refurbishing it. I does look nice (cosmetically), but I hardly mentioned every defect that I found, like the stanchions being bedded with what appears to be liquid nails. When I see crap like that, and things like the sewer hose flopping all over everywhere unsupported, and bonding wires lose in the bilge, and on and on, from a dealer who says that they routinely refurbish and sell boats, it makes me wonder. I know it is a 30 year old used boat, but come on, the stuff they did (like replace a three-burner cooktop with a one-burner, the water heater, and sewage hose, well I just don't get it.

lawyerdave71 · Post by **lawyerdave71** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:41 pm

One burner is all you need for mac & cheese.

Boat does look to be in good shape BUT someone did a very poor poor job spray painting the engines and they are not new.

Price seems a bit high.

Remember SURVEY SURVEY SURVEY!

alexander38 · Post by **alexander38** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:43 am

The engine question is easy, where's the bill for overhaul and install...I'd have it laying on the boat to show it was done.

DOUBLE R · Post by **DOUBLE R** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:34 am

I would shy away from a boat that has been fixed up. You are better off getting one that has been well maintained for the entire course of her life. Plus if they are gonna misrepresent (that's what politicians and car salesman do-regular folks lie) the engines, what else might they not disclose?

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:45 am

Sounds like they may fix up boats to sell . Where is the prof of engine repairs ? One thing is certain they are not new as the have not been made in years . Overhauled or re-mans installed maybe. or just a a repair with a spray can over haul.

Only 20 hours in 2 years ? look for fuel issues . even if the were over hauled 20 hours may not show up any issues from a poor over haul .

Stripermann2 · Post by **Stripermann2** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:30 am

Looks like overspray on ignition wires too, exhaust leakage below manifolds as well. It's not uncommon for someone to touch up an engine every now and then, however, it does lend some suspicion. But, if the seller can back it up with documentation, go from there.

Where do you plan on keeping and using the boat? Smith Mountain Lake (landlocked) is a haul for you....do you plan on trucking it to a new destination?

P-Dogg · Post by **P-Dogg** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:24 am

Hello Stripermann2. I plan on keeping it at Colonial Beach, so that you can teach me how to work on boats!

Okay, not really. I plan to keep it near Baltimore. Middle Riverish or something, kinda near Sir Aaron. Slips are reasonable (~$200/mo.), and it is 70 minutes from my house. Annapolis is pricier and tad farther. I'm trying to stay on the west side of the Bay bridge.

The moving estimator on Yachtworld sez shipping (is that a pun?) is about $1400. I'm figuring $4k by the time you pull the props and maybe the windshield, a round trip on a travel lift, etc. I'm also planning on putting it on the hard for a few weeks when I get it (not necessarily this one), so I can really go over it. My experience so far is that it will not be possible to buy a boat that doesn't need work.

It would be nice if I could be on the water by May 22ish, as I like to do the Blue Angels deal at the Naval Academy graduation. The boat that I used to charter to do that is not longer available.

I ended-up down at Grainger yesterday and was going to stop by your shop and say hi, but I was pressed for time and didn't really just want to drop in without calling. I'm on "vacation" today replacing the load-bearing sill plate that I fed to the termites unknowingly. I'll take you up on your offer from last year to meet for lunch when I finally at least make on offer on a boat. I figured that until I do that I am just another wannabe without any cred. Once I make an offer/have a boat, I won't be so jealous that you have a boat and I don't!

Commissionpoint · Post by **Commissionpoint** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:36 pm

The boat represents nice in some of the pics for sure. I can't help thinking though, based on your lengthy description, that there is a bit of lipstick on this pig. I agree with those who have suggested a good surveyor. A good survey will see all the stuff you mentioned, plus probably a lot of other things your eximination didn't detect. I just got a 22 page report from a very reputable surveyor which cost me $600 dollars. This fella spent two days and almost 12 hours doing his inspection. Very detailed indeed. It didn't reveal anything wrong, but it was good piece of mind, and I'd much rather spend $600 on a survey and end up walking away from a deal than spend ten or twenty times that on repairs. Good luck whatever you decide.

The Dog House · Post by **The Dog House** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:13 pm

With the number of boats for sale and the fact that you already know these sellers are not being truthful, I would run away from this one. Getting a survey done on this pig seems like a waste of $600, especially since you would have to truck it overland to where you are anyway. Add in that the asking price seems extremely high, and it just doesn't make sense to me to continue.

alexander38 · Post by **alexander38** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:27 pm

wasn't Aaron talkin' on selling his ?...

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:31 pm

How can anyone call a boat a Pig with out seeing it ? sure there are some issues , But all boats have some , even new.