F36 Tri Cabin - Electrical Issues

[aaronbocknek]

this has been an absolutely fascinating thread to follow. i'm learning a lot from this. HOWEVER, you need to get zapped at least 3 times to be fully initiated into the club of trojans..... and after that, embedded fiberglass strands deep in your arms and hands.
tri cabin aaron, baltimore, md.

[marklo154]

UPDATE

Well another day to work on the boat due to this rain anyhow here is were I am at.

The starboard engine starts up and runs great . The port side is a different story can`t get the thing to fire at all. Today I cleaned all connections, pulled the started had it rebuild and new solenoid put everything back together and now I get a real good crank and the engine turns and wants to fire up but it just will not fire up. So after all this I began to check the fuel lines, pumps , filters etc. Everything seems good there the motor is getting fuel. Plugs, wires, distributor cap all look close to brand new. Pulled some of the plugs to confirm spark and everything looks good there . Not really sure where to go from here. Could it be the carburetor ??

Today I also in my ignorance, i notice a cap on each drive / transmission that is a dipstick I checked each one and they are bone dry ???

[aaronbocknek]

Today I also in my ignorance, i notice a cap on each drive / transmission that is a dipstick I checked each one and they are bone dry ???

i'm assuming that your tri cabin is the aft engine/v-drive configuration? if you are looking at the v-drives from above, facing aft, and you see a pull that looks like it has a flat or mushroom top on it, that is the drive fluid dip stick. and no, it should not be dry. there should be transmission fluid in it at all times. and remember, DO NOT engage the v-drives while sitting still, tied to the dock. the v-drives are water cooled and have seawater scoops, 2 per drive. one faces forward the other faces aft. if you need information about your particular v-drives, and they are unique to each boat and hull number, contact walter gear directly. they have all the information from when each one was produced. all you need to do is supply the hull # and serial # on the drives ID plate.

http://www.waltergear.com

[prowlersfish]

I believe the v- drives take oil not AFT ( the trans take AFT) Check on the corect oil . Aaron is correct on the cooling of the drives ,so I would sit ruining at the dock for a long time even out of gear . But I would not worry about putting it in or out of gear momentarily in the slip . once the oil level is correct.

[aaronbocknek]

I believe the v- drives take oil not AFT ( the trans take AFT) Check on the corect oil . Aaron is correct on the cooling of the drives ,so I would sit ruining at the dock for a long time even out of gear . But I would not worry about putting it in or out of gear momentarily in the slip . once the oil level is correct.

sorry, it was early. yeah, oil in the drive unit, however, i'd check with walter gear before i'd do anything, up to and including the gear engagement while in the dock. i checked their website again and, like in the past, all they need is the serial number. they are very helpful and always willing to be of assistance.

[prowlersfish]

The idea is not to over heat the V-drives so So just putting them in gear momentarily won't hurt a thing.

[summer storm]

Paul's right. Engaging the v-drives at the dock to check their function is not going to hurt anything. In fact I am sure you have at least 5 minutes before you need to start worrying about it. Just like if you were station keeping at a bridge or taking 15 minutes to dock the boat. Both of these situations create very little water flow.

Edit***. In fact I strongly encourage testing your gears before you depart the dock by checking for both ahead and astern operation.

[marklo154]

What type of oil am I to put in these drives? I have done a bit of research and found 30 weight. Is this what everyone would recommend ? Also how much does each drive require.

[aaronbocknek]

What type of oil am I to put in these drives? I have done a bit of research and found 30 weight. Is this what everyone would recommend ? Also how much does each drive require.

okay, in my hot hands is a spec sheet that came with bubala 3, our 1972 f-36 tri cabin. dad saved and archived EVERYTHING that was on that tri cabin and this is a copy that is in the bubala 3 archive book that was handed down to me. DIRECT FROM WALTER GEAR, at the time it was known as the walter machine co., inc. the tri cabins had the RV-30 v-drive unit (not sure if the later models had a different one, then again, that information can be obtained on the ID plate on your specific gear. better yet, as i've suggested a number of times, contact walter gear directly. they are the ones BEST SUITED to answer your questions.
http://www.waltergear.com )

so ACCORDING TO THE SPEC SHEET dated 01 january 1971 <<u.s. patent # 2,859,634>>.... and i quote..........

LUBRICATION---- ""use SAE 30 heavy duty motor oil for models RV-10-20-30-40-48. use SAE 80-90 gear oil for RV-40CV-55CV-60CV-90CV. add 3% molybdenum disulfide (molykote) for break in, supplied with each new v-drive. fill to proper level on dip stick. change lubricant and clean magnetic plugs after the first 100 hours of operation and every 500 hours thereafter."" **** specific quantity is not listed in the spec sheet so you will need to eye ball it. again, it's best that you contact walter gear directly for this information.*****

WATERCOOLING----- ""water cooling of the v-drive is essential. generally a line from the seacock to the water cooled cover of the v-drive, and from the v-drive to the intake of the engine circulating pump is connected for this purpose. in some cases scupper scoops through the hull near the v-drive, connected to and from the v-drive provide independent water cooling and are actuated by the movement of the boat through the water. with this type of installation, the v-drives should be operated only while the boat is in motion. walter v-drives are efficiently water cooled for continuous operation. proper operating temperatures are from 140 degrees to 180 degrees fahrenheit, although safe operating temperatures may be as high as 210 degrees fahrenheit.""

PRESSURE DROP SWITCH AND WARNING LIGHT------ ""these instruments are standard equipment on all v-drives equipped with oil circulating pumps. the 12volt warning light will be lit until the boat gets underway, or, when pressure of the oil circulating pump, which normally is between 6 to 12 pounds, drops below 2 pounds. this indicates loss of lubricant, the major cause of pressure drop. the boat should not be operated until all the oil level is restored.""

so, there you have a bit more information, direct from the spec sheet that i have on hand. hope this information is helpful.
aaron

[Big D]

.....""water cooling of the v-drive is essential. generally a line from the seacock to the water cooled cover of the v-drive, and from the v-drive to the intake of the engine circulating pump is connected for this purpose.....

Did you notice the error in the description re circ pump? I think they mean raw water pump...big difference. This is the method I would prefer and would be on my hit list to convert to if it were the other way, no more cooling worries. It's an easy modification. Having said that, in hotter climates, one would have to do some math and consider the hottest ambient water temp the vessel operates in to ensure the raw water can still draw enough heat from the engine after it's done it's thing with the drive. The cooling system however is always well overrated so I strongly suspect it wouldn't be an issue. The question is how much would it put it out of its normal operating range and whether that would be a big deal...don't think that would apply either.

[aaronbocknek]

.....""water cooling of the v-drive is essential. generally a line from the seacock to the water cooled cover of the v-drive, and from the v-drive to the intake of the engine circulating pump is connected for this purpose.....

Did you notice the error in the description re circ pump? I think they mean raw water pump...big difference. This is the method I would prefer and would be on my hit list to convert to if it were the other way, no more cooling worries. It's an easy modification. Having said that, in hotter climates, one would have to do some math and consider the hottest ambient water temp the vessel operates in to ensure the raw water can still draw enough heat from the engine after it's done it's thing with the drive. The cooling system however is always well overrated so I strongly suspect it wouldn't be an issue. The question is how much would it put it out of its normal operating range and whether that would be a big deal...don't think that would apply either.

actually i just transposed it directly from the spec sheet. didn't really give it much thought. our tri cabin had the v-drives cooled by two separate seacocks. one scoop faced forward, the other faced aft. it was a 'forced' water cooling system and you know those drives never gave us a bit of trouble. we had a slight manufacturing defect on one when we purchased the boat. at speed, there was a grinding noise from, i believe, the starboard v-drive unit. dad called the company and was put through to mr. walter himself (the son of the founder). dad explained what was going on and mr. walter, in his german accented english responded....''ahhhh zeee growel. a vorn bearing. no problem dr. bocknek, vee vill have someone look at it right away. where is your vessel docked?'' the next day a walter gear technician drove down from the factory in new jersey and replaced all the bearings in that v-drive. at no cost to us. you cannot beat their customer service. maybe that is why they have been around for 86 years.

[Big D]

......actually i just transposed it directly from the spec sheet.....

Yup, I've seen it before, just thought I'd point it out. They're pretty robust units, nothing complicated or over engineered. FYI, some rebuilders are now using Merc Hi Performance gear lube in them.....same as used in stern drives.

[TC]

I'm thinking you may have more going on here. First off I question the testing CTC did on your batteries. Seems to me they were partially or fully discharged and they were testing voltage only. I could be wrong. As I understand your issue you installed charged batteries and ran the engines and all systems were good. Returned next day to the above problems. I suggest after you return to the boat and restart the engines and everyone is happy shut down everything, charger included. Disconnect the last positive lead from the batteries that is headed to the power distribution panel. Look closely as you remove the cable and see if there is a spark. Listen you may hear a snap. If so you still have a draw on the batteries. Get at least a 15 A amp meter and connect in series with that battery post and the cable. In a perfect world you should see zero. There will be some sort of discharge but should be less than 50 millamps. (memory for clock, radios, GPS etc) if there is more of a draw you will then have to move down stream to next connection center and one by one disconnect circuits and install the test amp meter one by one until you find the guilty party. If your discharge at the batteries is less than 50 millamps then grab a beer and celebrate that you have fixed it with the bad charger.

[Commissionpoint]

Port Engine:

Points. Check your points. It doesn't sound like you are getting any spark. A little corrosion on the points, and there ya go, no spark to ignite your mixture.

Check the dwell also. Dwell on that should be around 30 or 32 degrees. If its way off that could be a problem as well.

Points and condenser kits are inexpensive. If you get it running after playing around with the points you should probably consider picking up a couple kits and just changing them out for piece of mind. Keep an extra kit around somewhere with your spares just in case you need one in the future as well. They are really simple and small parts, but without them you can't make it run.

Good luck. I am glad to hear you got at least one of them running and were able to chase down some of your electrical gremlins.