1996 390

[johnson260]

I am looking at a 1996 390 Express. What hull design are these? Current Owner swears it has a Bertram hull? I read where Carver made their own design after 92 somewhere. I am not sure it matters but I am trying to learn as much as possible about this boat before I spend any money. I am also fascinated with a 1989 Trojan twelve meter with twin diesels but the cost of having to rebuild a big Detroit diesel in the future does scare me a little.

[BobCT]

No affiliation with Trojan or Bertram, built by Carver. A friend of mine has a model 350 and he's not impressed with the build quality. He wound up with a 2' hole in the hull this past winter after it was blocked. There was a big void from the original layup and the yard just happened to block at that particular point.

The boat does have a nice layout though and he's corrected a lot of the factory issues.

Bob

[BobCT]

No affiliation with Trojan or Bertram, built by Carver. A friend of mine has a model 350 and he's not impressed with the build quality. He wound up with a 2' hole in the hull this past winter after it was blocked. There was a big void from the original layup and the yard just happened to block at that particular point.

The boat does have a nice layout though and he's corrected a lot of the factory issues.

Bob

[summer storm]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I'll let the meter guys answer the question about the hull but I can tell you right off the bat that it doesn't have a Bertram hull. The only boats with a Bertram hull are the boats that say "Bertram" on the side of the boat and were built at the Bertram factory. That being said the "naval architect: that worked at Bertram has designed some Trojan boats and others. His name is Naper and I am not sure that he penned your possible new boat or not. Good luck and get a survey!

[johnson260]

Thanks for the welcome and I will get a survey for sure if it moves that far.....To be clear this is a Carver built hull with Carver built molds? Not the Delta Conic either? I thought I wanted a SeaRay until I found the Twelve Meters 1989-1992 and then searching for those I ran across this 1996 390.

[aaronbocknek]

welcome to the forum. though not a meter guy, i believe the model you are looking at was built by carver using the carver molds. from what i understand, carver, upon buying trojan, destroyed all the trojan molds. (what an absolute pity) the hull you are looking at is not a delta conic hull. at least i do not believe it is. meter men, take it away.........

[todd brinkerhoff]

Thanks for the welcome and I will get a survey for sure if it moves that far.....To be clear this is a Carver built hull with Carver built molds? Not the Delta Conic either? I thought I wanted a SeaRay until I found the Twelve Meters 1989-1992 and then searching for those I ran across this 1996 390.

The Carver "Trojan" 370, 390, and finally 400 were based on the Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express. The 10.8 Meter Express was a brand new design being created by Trojan in the early 90's to replace its' current line of International boats. Their intent was to get away from the Delta Conic hull and to produce a new and updated line of International boats. One of the largest markets for Trojan during that time was overseas, so they wanted to create a boat that would be of interest in the Mediterranean area. The 10.8 Express was designed by Italian Naval Architect Fulvio de Simoni. Fulvio is currently the sole designer for Pershing Yachts. Trojan was also looking to get away from the Delta Conic hull (which was a fantastic design). Trojan Executives went to Bertram designers (Probably Napier) to design a new hull for their new International series. Whether that would classify it as a Bertram style hull or a hull designed by a Bertram engineer is, in my opinion, a difference of simantics.

When Carver bought out Trojan in 1993, they only carried over the 10.8 Express design. Many Trojan folks will blame Carver for destroying the Delta Conic hull, but in truth, I think Trojan would have abandoned that hull if they had survived.

I don't know exactly what Carver did to the 10.8 Express hull design. I had an opportunity to compare my 10.8 to a Carver Trojan 370, and there were some differences, including a lack of a keel on the Carver.

The 370, 390, and 400 were not built by Trojan. I cannot attest to quality. I have heard many reports of people that own these boats and love them. I would just advise to get a good survey
.
I think Carver felt that the Fulvio de Simoni design was so successful that they used him to independently design their future Carver Trojan 440, which was a very popular, and huge express.

[todd brinkerhoff]

And, if you are looking at the 89-92 12 Meter, that boat will have the Delta Conic hull, with a slight tunnel drive. Much of the design of the 12 comes from the 10.8 Express from Fulvio de Simoni. I personally love that model of the 12 Meter, although the Fisherman hate the design.

[aaronbocknek]

todd, were the 12's cored? how about the carver hulls? cored or not? just curious.

[todd brinkerhoff]

todd, were the 12's cored? how about the carver hulls? cored or not? just curious.

[todd brinkerhoff]

todd, were the 12's cored? how about the carver hulls? cored or not? just curious.

The 12 Meter was fully cored. I was advised that the Carver was full glass.

[todd brinkerhoff]

I am looking at a 1996 390 Express. What hull design are these? Current Owner swears it has a Bertram hull? I read where Carver made their own design after 92 somewhere. I am not sure it matters but I am trying to learn as much as possible about this boat before I spend any money. I am also fascinated with a 1989 Trojan twelve meter with twin diesels but the cost of having to rebuild a big Detroit diesel in the future does scare me a little.

Oh....and if you want my opinion (which is worth about 1 1/2 cents), I would opt for the 12 Meter with the Detroit's. Engine rebuild is about $14k per engine for the Detroit's, which is probably the cheapest diesel to rebuild. Cool boats, with an updated design.

[johnson260]

Thanks for the answers, I have yet to step foot on the 12 Meter yet. There is also a 121 meter with Cats in it in my area. Any opinions on Cat versus Detroit other than the rebuild cost? This is different territory for me, I can sell my current Rinker 280 and maybe pay for a rebuild.

[todd brinkerhoff]

Thanks for the answers, I have yet to step foot on the 12 Meter yet. There is also a 121 meter with Cats in it in my area. Any opinions on Cat versus Detroit other than the rebuild cost? This is different territory for me, I can sell my current Rinker 280 and maybe pay for a rebuild.

Prowlerfish probably has the most knowledge in that category. I do know that the detroits are a little cheaper to rebuild because you don't have to remove the lower end, unless the lower end is screwed. Also, you have 2 cycle vs 4 cycle, if it matters.

Honestly though, if you like the 390, I wouldn't walk away because Trojan didn't build it. Carver makes good boats unless your a total boat snob. Of course go tell a Viking guy (or Bertram for that matter) that you own a Trojan and you'll get the same attitude. The 12 Meter is a huge boat, especially compared to what you currently have. The 390 will be a big step up, and is very similar to the 10.8 Meter Express. I love my boat, and it has a ton of space. Just get a good survey, which I think has been stated at least 4 times so far. In my opinion, if you are using the boat at least 150 to 200 hours a season, you might look at a diesel. If its less, I don't think the extra cost associated with the diesel motors is worth it.

And remember, the 12 Meters are cored, so a good hull survey of moisture is an absolute must. Especially the stringers. I think the 390 is solid glass (except the transom - f@%^king stupid), and if its the same set up as the 10.8 Express, it will have a coreless liner system like the 10 Meter Express.

Good luck