Trojan Boat Forum

to: jon e quest....Thanks again for your comments.... great knowledge.

Hoping to revive this post. Just getting back into the swing of things, and researching the F26 and F25. Considering both, and trying to decipher the differences. Seems like they have the same/similar layout, but the difference in beam (1'4"?) seems like it would make a fairly big difference. Any thoughts out there? I see user Rodman owned both - would love to her his thoughts.

Not sure where you got 1'4" beam difference I read that both had the same beam then later models of the F25 had 6" narrower beam .

Bryan,

First, a few technicalities to correct from those earlier posts.

1. The 25' Sea Raider was the Model 210, not 250, and was still shown on pricelists thru Aug '74.

2. I can't find definitive proof that the early F-26 ('71-'72) was called the Model 260. Considering that other Trojan models introduced prior to 1973 have 'oddball' model designations, I doubt it. Maybe an early F-26 owner can chime in.

3. According to a pricelist I have dated Aug '74, both Chrysler and Mercruiser powerplants were available in the new for 1975 F-26. Same for the Sea Raider. The Model 253 was introduced later, so not sure if Mercruisers were ever offered in that model. In service, both engines are good. Chrysler fixed initial cooling issues, but still recommends 140 deg thermostats.

To compare the boats you're interested in, I'm going to assume you're talking about the Model 261 F-26 vs. the Model 253 F-25. The Model 261 F-26 has a 10'2" beam. The Model 253 F-25 has a 9'-4" beam, a difference of 10". This may not seem like much on paper, but the volume between these two hulls is HUGE! The F-26 has a sweeping sheerline as opposed to the straight sheerline of the F-25. That sweeping shearline allows for what is probably the largest v-berth in any Trojan model. In fact Trojan's brochure says the F-26 is 'big enough to sleep four or five.' The head on these larger boats is also big when compared to the F-25. I am 5'8" and could not close the head door on my F-25 when in the seated position ...if you get my meaning! Also, the F-26's galley has twice the storage space of the F-25. IMO, if you plan to overnight on your new boat, you will be much happier with the F-26.

No offense to Model 253 owners out there, but as for handling, my F-25 was squirrely when on plane, being hyper-sensitive to overplaning. Overplaning is the sudden and unannounced tendency for the boat to nose-dive out of control either to port or starboard, and when it happens, will scare the sh-- out of everyone onboard. The only way to stop what's going on is to chop the power back to idle. The salesman showing my old F-25 nearly thru my father-in-law out of the boat! My boat had the stock Chrysler 318 and stock 14x10 cupped prop. In that instance, the boat was loaded with five average-sized adults, all in the cockpit. 1/4 tank of fuel. No water and no other provisions onboard. I originally thought it was the salesman's fault, but that wasn't the case. It happened a lot! I eventually learned to 'fly' that boat thru the water, but never let anyone else pilot the boat on plane unless I was standing there next to them. The boat required constant trimming. Both my buddy and I sold our Model 253's and bought F-26's.

Just my two-cents...

jon_e_quest wrote:

No offense to Model 253 owners out there, but as for handling, my F-25 was squirrely when on plane, being hyper-sensitive to overplaning. Overplaning is the sudden and unannounced tendency for the boat to nose-dive out of control either to port or starboard, and when it happens, will scare the sh-- out of everyone onboard. The only way to stop what's going on is to chop the power back to idle. The salesman showing my old F-25 nearly thru my father-in-law out of the boat! My boat had the stock Chrysler 318 and stock 14x10 cupped prop. In that instance, the boat was loaded with five average-sized adults, all in the cockpit. 1/4 tank of fuel. No water and no other provisions onboard. I originally thought it was the salesman's fault, but that wasn't the case. It happened a lot! I eventually learned to 'fly' that boat thru the water, but never let anyone else pilot the boat on plane unless I was standing there next to them. The boat required constant trimming. Both my buddy and I sold our Model 253's and bought F-26's.

Just my two-cents...

Thanks
you just scared the crap out of me, as I just bought a F 25 model 253
Well..at least I am forewarned and won't be surprised if this truely happens, I know what to expect

Keeping the weight in the bow low will help . I have always called this bow steer , never heard it call over planing , over use of trim tabs also will cause this . when loading the boat keep heavier stuff to the back and your should be OK . and this only happen near the top end , I don't think you would ever have a issue at normal cruse speed ,

To be honest I have seen other boats do this , But this is the only time I have heard of a Trojan F25 owner complain of it , so I would not worry to much and if it did happen just pull back a little , coming back to idle seems like a over reaction .

Torcan,

As long as you don't cruise around at WOT, bow steer shouldn't be a problem. Like Paul said, don't be afraid to load the boat heavier in the back. This will make it handle better all around.

The one thing you'll want to be careful of is cruising in a following sea with this boat. With a fairly flat bottom at the stern these boats tend to get pushed around easily from behind and can surprise you with a sudden sharp turn. Having another boats wake roll up on your stern quarter after its passed you will have the same effect. To eliminate this problem in a following sea, trim the boat bow high (tabs up) so that the stern digs into the water and give her enough throttle to keep you moving faster than the seas. In doing this you'll find that your boat can cruise in a following sea like a champ.

Once you get used to the handling characteristics of your boat and know what to expect of it, cruising becomes easier and less stressful. I'd say in no time you'll be as comfortable with it as driving a car but I've seen how you guys drive in Toronto

oops, double post

prowlersfish wrote:To be honest I have seen other boats do this , But this is the only time I have heard of a Trojan F25 owner complain of it , so I would not worry to much and if it did happen just pull back a little , coming back to idle seems like a over reaction .

Over-reaction? Prowler, you poo-poo my post, but allow me to enlighten you by paraphrasing what John of Marine Tech told me about the Model 253's tendancy to, what he termed, 'over-plane'... and what you call 'bow-steer'.

Trojan engineers pushed the 253's main bulkhead as far aft as practical to maximze the cabin space. This of course positioned the engine farther back, which in turn put the shaft at a steeper than desired angle. To correct the problem, Trojan added a bronze ventilation plate above the rudder of every Model 253. No other Trojan model has this plate. You may also notice a small delta-wing form cast into the top of the factory equipped rudder. Both modifications were supposed to trick the hull into thinking it was longer, but the over-planing problem was never totally eliminated.

See the following old post for pics and discussion about this plate:
http://www.trojanboats.net/wforum/viewt ... ch&start=0

The steep shaft angle basically results in a line of thrust that forces the bow down while on plane. Figure out how to keep the bow up and you will avoid a violent uncontrolled turn that will go thru almost 90 deg before you get it stopped. The boat lists sharply to the outside of the turn and would continue unabated until you chop the power. WOT is not required for this to happen. Bringing the power back to some lower setting does not stop the turn. Bringing her all the way to idle not only stops everything, but also allows everyone to put on clean underwear. You will also need to pick up anything that wasn't fastened down prior to the event. I ultimately used the trim tabs primarily for roll control and kept people out of the cabin while on plane.

Interestingly, the earlier model 251/252 has a semi-tunneled shaft, allowing a shallower angle than would otherwise be possible. The feature is on no other Trojan model. Too bad.

Like I said over reacting IMO. a over trimmed boat will do the same ,pulling back will correct the issue no need to come right back to idle .



I have not heard over other complaints about this , and have been out on F25s and never had any thing like that had to any degree worth remembering .

Now I have been on boats that did this . and the problem was always trim,
the owners would have the tabs to far down think you don't have o back off on the tabs at speed . Or the owner had fixed tabs ( remember those )to help plane at lower speeds not understanding what the would do at higher speeds .

I do remember one boat that did this with no tabs . The problem ? the anchor locker was full of chain .

With that said the owner should run the boat and see how it handles at difrent speeds and loads

any other F25 owners have this issue ??

Would larger trim tabbs fool the hull ? Seems it could to me. Is give Bennett tabbs a call.

the problem would be over trim . the use of tabs would only make it worse . If I had this boat and I had this problem that plate above the rudder would be gone . IF there was a issue.


F25 owners ?? comments ??

jon_e_quest wrote: Trojan added a bronze ventilation plate above the rudder of every Model 253. No other Trojan model has this plate. You may also notice a small delta-wing form cast into the top of the factory equipped rudder. Both modifications were supposed to trick the hull into thinking it was longer, but the over-planing problem was never totally eliminated.

is this what you are referring to?

thats it , I was thinking they has more shape to it maybe that was cut down ? or I just don't remember ??

it's not cut down, it extends behind the stern about "2-3 inches" if I remember right from when I was at the boat.