A/C UPDATE PIC'S

[k9th]

I have never heard of the split units but they look pretty nice. I followed the link and it was very informative. Apparently they are available up to 24,000 BTU and at that size with shipping it is about $600 cheaper than the quote for the Marine-Air unit I need to replace in my boat.

Interesting.....

[larglo]

Captain Ross,

If you replace the roof unit with the split one,,,,will you sell your old unit you have pictured?

Larry

[rossjo]

Larry,

She's broke - or I'd keep her.

[dollarbill]

I have seen these units in person and it looks like you need a pretty substantial wall and wall space to mount the inside portion of the AC.

I cannot believe that some enterprising soul has not adapted something to meet the needs of the in between cruiser market.

Throwing 3 - 4K$ in a marine a/c unit just is not in the cards for this boat.

There is a German company that will be marketing a self contained 8K BTU simplistic A/C soon but it will be priced around $2100. May as well go with the Ebay Unit for $1495 and do all of the needed cabinetry and electrical work to make it look good.

The Cruise Air Hatch model although a self contained package - really is big and obtrusive and not an option for me.

The perfect option for me, would be a low profile portable AC unit that will fit right in that space under my V berth where my Cabin Comfort unit is now.

Haier / aka commercial air has a 8K unit that stands 24 " high .. that would work perfectly EXCEPT how do you vent the exhaust hose. A 5" hose is an imposing size to work on a boat.

Maybe my A/C guy can resuscitate my Cabin Comfort unit... if I could figure out how to make a portable A/C unit work - that would be best... No water pump, no turn to start and count to 10 before turning to start, less condensate and maybe the possibility of no condensate, no strainer crap, no water supply hoses...

Now how to vent that darn exhaust hose on that portable... at least the heat will be breaking soon and I will have a few months to explore my options.

[k9th]

I have a portable unit and you need to remember that they do not function like a standard window unit. The window unit recirculates the interior air continually through the unit while the portable unit uses the air inside the room as its make-up air also. The exhaust duct is warm as it removes the heat from the air and it blows air out through the duct that is from the room - not the outside.

Mine is 10,000 BTU and does a pretty good job, especially removing moisture from the air, but it never gets as cold in the room as it would with a standard window type unit that takes the heat away by using outside air.

Thought you might like to know if you are considering buying one.

[larryeddington]

Any AC is infinitely re-buildable unless it is totally rotted from salt water or other. Any accomplished AC man should be able to understand the system and repair. Yes they use water for a condensing medium but regular building and home air-conditioning systems also once used water for condensing mediums and most large commercial ones do now.

Be-friend an AC man that knows his stuff and you can be running equipment designed to run in a marine environment.

I have put a new compressor in my my 16K BTU marine unit and will mount it in the boat. The package is much smaller than any other.

Also I have installed the Chinese made split system as shown ( a dual heating and cooling version) and it worked quite well in a small portable building. Not sure where you would place the condensing unit on a boat as though small and quite are sizable on a boat and the evaporator unit is about 3 feet long.

Ex HVAC contractor

Regards,

Larry

[rickalan35]

Our Air Conditioning Wars and Woes With Interesting Solutions continue:
RossJoe, I really like your concept of utilizing a separated unit. I think the idea would be a fine one, if there was indeed a model currently being manufactured that fit nicely within a marine application. But I have to agree with DollarBill and Larry when they indicate concern about available spacing for the wall mounted section.

As some on this forum are already aware, I converted to two 7,000 portable units this year (one in the salon and one in the aft cabin) and they have worked out very well. I was able to do so though, because they fit nicely into my TriCabin. I vented the hot air outside via four inch white plastic flex hose thru those already existent chrome hull vents. No visible vent hose. But that's old news.

What's really often apparent though, within the posts on this forum is the fact that marine air conditioning as we know it, - is often expensive, unwieldy and somewhat ineffective.

[Big D]

In my opinion, the only down side with a marine unit is it's price. I'd say they take less room than a portable one; some units have very small footprints and can be placed under the smallest bench in a dinette or in a limited engine compartment. This doesn't take away any precious cabin storage space. With some ducting, you can use one unit to cool other spaces. As far as efficiency, they use sea water to disipate the heat which is far better than a system that is affected by ambient air temperature. If the ambient air is 90 deg (State side numbers), your efficiency isn't all that good. A reverse heat unit, though even more expensive, keeps everything in one space/package, and is uncomparable in safety to electric heaters. Expensive yes, but they work very well. Do I have anything against using non-marine units? Hey, if it's all one can afford and it's done smart, go for it but be aware of thier limitations.

I would caution that if you use the portable's plug rather than hard wiring in, check the plug often. You should also check the connections/wire terminals on the outlet periodically. This applies to heaters also. Have seen too many fail.

[rickalan35]

Ordinarily, I'd agree completely with Big D. With all due respect to Big D, my best friend has a new 44 SeaRay with factory air that will absolutely freeze your butt off in 90 degree temperatures.

But my personal experience is as follows. Perhaps someone else has had a similar one.

I know people with older boats whose factory air has always been essentially ineffective from day one. I have a friend in my marina with an eighties vintage, 34 foot Silverton sedan with a factory-installed 5000 btu marine air conditioning system which has it's 14 inch square inlet screen, located just 18 inches below the cold air outlet. Mostly ineffective.

Unlike my friend with the aforementioned Silverton, my TriCabin did not happen to come with any factory air conditioning installed, plus my marina doesn't install these systems. Like does anyone live in a marina that will install a system for them?

Big D, if you're in Toronto you may have marine air conditioning installers who can do a great job. Not up here though that I know of.

So I purchased a used, underpowered Cruisair unit and installed it in the largely unused closet space beneath my setee. I built a platform in there for it and lined it's floor with rubber to help eliminate any compressor vibration. I managed to buy the wrong water pump prior to finally purchasing the correct one and then I had the marina pull the boat and install a through hull fitting plus a brass strainer.

Then I had to build and install the actual ductwork. The air inlet screen was punched into the closet door located across from the head and I built a shroud to connect it to the actual compressor inlet. Then the cool air was ducted back under the settee toward the rear of the salon. I pumped the exit water out through the fitting formerly installed by Trojan for the manual bilge pump.

All in all, a lot of effort and multiple holes cut into my boat with lousy results.

Next I purchased a 12,000 btu unit and replaced the first one. The bigger unit probably should have had more than just my one four inch outlet duct. Regardless, even though it blew out pretty cold, it wouldn't cool the boat effectively because it wasn't spread out into a wide enough area and because also I believe, the boat's ceiling was uninsulated.

Then, the water stopped pumping through the coils. This turned out to be due to algae growth plugging the coils even though I had a strainer installed. We removed the unit and tried to blow out the coils with compressed air.

Is anybody getting tired of reading this? Me too. This fiasco took me most of the summer of 2008.

So I junked it. Gave up. Gave the unit away to another guy who never got it working either.

So anyway Big D. With all due respect I have enough money to buy mostly what I need within reason as to relating to my boat (no gold plated taps installed yet). Maybe I should be looking at that new SeaRay. But I like the teak and my life with this old TriCabin of mine has been rewarding.

So I just went out and fixed my problem for good I hope, by insulating the ceiling and then simply buying the two portables. It solved my particular problem. I did happen to mention that I have lots of room for those two portables in the Tricabin without taking up valuable interior space. I'm fortunate in that respect, not everyone is.

I slept in my rear bedroom this summer after running all day with those V drives of mine. By bedtime with the units on, the temperature in the bedroom was down into the high sixties. Results working well for me. That's what counted most.

Old boat, no previous factory air, no local installers. Whew.

I absolutely agree with Big D's thoughts regarding the hardwiring of these units.

Rick

[Big D]

I'm glad that your non-marine unit works good for you. I think that's great. My refference to it being all that one may be able to afford wasn't meant to offend, it was simply based on previous posts and threads. Cost seems to be the biggest factor in determining which system to go with. I also think that whether you pay $5 or $5000 for a more expensive unit that does relatively the same thing, you're going to have a failure rate for both price points. But to say that marine units are unwieldly and somewhat ineffective I think is perhaps a bit harsh. Having said that, I understand the comment given your previous experience with one.

As far as your friend's Silverton is concerned, it seems the issue is the boat manufacturer and how they installed it (typical) and not the AC unit itself.

Gosh, I guess this really is a hot summer!!

[rossjo]

Hot? 2-1/2 months of 90+ degree days now.

No one wants to go out in the Trojan (including me - except on the bridge). So, the F32 is for Fall, Winter(heat works great) and Spring - which is fine. But it would be nice to use it once in a while in the summer - and remove the humidity on occasion. We'll see ...

[larglo]

I am beginning to really love my window installed A/C that is still working great.

Larry

[larryeddington]

One of the commentators I believe has hit squarly upon what is most boats issues with successful AC, that is in my opinion. That is that boats especially older boats do not have much in the way of insulation to hold the heat in or out when conditioning the living spaces air. Example I have a 16K BTU Marine unit. In insulated buildings it would cool approximately 500 to 600 square feet of floor space, however usually buildings are adequately insulated.

When I do the install it will be at the end of my boat rehab program during which I intend to insulate as much as possible. I believe this unit will more than adequately do the job with help from insulation.

Larry E.

[rickalan35]

What's really often apparent though, within the posts on this forum is the fact that marine air conditioning as we know it, - is often expensive, unwieldy and somewhat ineffective.

Boy, I really was on a big rant there, wasn't I? I suppose the memories of all my frustration, sweat, skinned knuckles and with only poor results to show for it - were all coming back to haunt me in spades.

I think Big D is correct when he says that a properly functioning marine set up is the best method and for all the reasons he listed.

I think that if I could press a button and be sitting here today with a properly installed marine air conditioning system in my boat and by that I mean a properly sized unit with multiple ducting, thermostat etc. - then I would definitely do it.

The reality for me though is that I don't have that particular button to press.

Cheers

Rick

[rossjo]

The marine growth here is really bad as well. Have to have the hull cleaned every 3 weeks if you plan to plane. Otherwise, you have salad on the hull. I've got about 4" of it right now - my diver got a new job and didn't show ...

Not sure how you keep the algae out of the system, but there are 1,000's of yachts out there with Marine AC, so it does work.

For me, the price and simplicity of this split system might be worthwhile.

I wonder if the interior half of the split system might mount n the nook above the forward galley seat on an F32?