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todd brinkerhoff wrote:Bertram not being involved in the Trojan hull design is not 100% correct. All Trojans built prior to 1991 had Trojan designed hulls, to include the famous Delta Conic. In 1990, Trojan contracted with Bertram designer David Napier to design a new boat, the 10.8 Meter Express. Less than 20 of those boats were made before Trojan was bought out by Carver . Carver used the 10.8 M design with some modifications for their 370, 390, and 400 series. The Carver made "Trojan 440" was actually completely designed by Italian designer Fulvio De Simoni.=[/url]
I believe the F boats we in house design , The meter boats hull ( delta Conic ) was not a Trojan design . It was done by Harry Schoell . The 10.8 Hull designed by David Napier is a hull by David Napier Not IMO making it a Bertram Hull , The Famous Bertram Hull was designed by Ray Hunt .
Not Being a Bertram is Not a bad thing at all .( the new hulsl are having Big issues )
to the OP
The 390 along with the other Trojans Built by Carver are First class boats and well made . Truly worthy of the Trojan name .
The only negative thing I have heard , was something with the large engine Vent allowing water to enter . every thing else was positive and thats why they are a sought are boat
Almost forgot welcome to the forum .
IMHO it is incorrect to say that Bertram was involved in building a boat because David Napier designed it. I had a good friend that was a VP at Trojan (engineer) up to the end and he told me that Bertram and Trojan had nothing to do with each other. It's like saying that a Firebird is a corvette because they were designed by the same guy.
And yes, welcome to the forum. As you can see some Trojan owners want that Trojan-Bertram connection and other push it away. For me, I think the Trojans are solid enough boats that we do not need to lean on that "Bertram" name to make the boat better.
Doug
1977 F-32
1982 Chris Craft 280
1992 Boston Whaler 13 Super Sport Limited
1974 F-25 (Sold)
1979 F-26 (sold)
prowlersfish wrote: The 10.8 Hull designed by David Napier is a hull by David Napier Not IMO making it a Bertram Hull.
IMHO it is incorrect to say that Bertram was involved in building a boat because David Napier designed it.
+1
+1
I agree 100%. If I engineer/build something on my own, my company doesn't get credit for it. I do. Its an MH design, not an MH by Smith Brook design, or anything else.
1978 F-32 "Eclipse"
Merc 305 SBC's
1.52:1 Borg Warners
1983 Correct Craft
Commander 351 Ford (PCM)
1:1 Borg Warner
There are 350 different varieties of shark, not counting loan or pool.
Dave 39 express wrote:Looks like I opened a can of worms
Maybe, But the model your looking at is a well designed and well made boat . If I was in the market I would have no issue buying one . I would consider a Trojan Built by Carver a top of the line boat .
A survey is in order as even the best boats made can have issues caused by previous owners
Good luck Dave
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat
Dave 39 express wrote:Looks like I opened a can of worms
Maybe, But the model your looking at is a well designed and well made boat . If I was in the market I would have no issue buying one . I would consider a Trojan Built by Carver a top of the line boat .
A survey is in order as even the best boats made can have issues caused by previous owners
Good luck Dave
O god we agree on something.....
Carver 3607 ACMY 454's Merc's
10' Dinghy 6hp Merc.
La Dolce Vita
Let's hit the water !
I looked over my post several times, and I didn't find where I said that Bertram BUILT the boat in question. If a guy who works for Bertram, who designed numerous hull designs for Bertram, and is best known as a Bertram guy, designs a hull for Trojan, that my friends is called a Trojan with Bertram influence. I suppose you could say that it has David Napier of Bertram influence. Trojan went outside for the Delta Conic design (Harry Schoell), and they decided to tap Bertram for help with the new design. But apparently that means that people can get their feathers in a bunch and claim that I said that Bertram built the 10.8M express. (Summer Storm). Check the post. That was never said. I will repeat. The hull was designed by Bertram engineer Dave Napier. The Layout and design was engineered by Italian designer De Simoni. AND the boat was BUILT by Trojan in Lancaster. I have no loyalty to Bertram, and my boat is worth nothing more because of the hull design. It rides no better than the Delta Conic. So their is no personal interest in saying that their is Bertram influence. The fact is, it is what it is. However, it is amazing that noone had a clue about the 10.8 Meter Express or the subsequent Carver Trojan Express models or their influence prior to my research, but now everyone is an expert. Before you make a comment, please read this in its entirety.
1991 Trojan International 10.8 Meter Express hull# 003 - 454 Crusaders
1961 Century Raven 22 - Gray Marine 327
your stated "Bertram not being involved in the Trojan hull design is not 100% correct" and I answered "IMHO it is incorrect to say that Bertram was involved in building a boat because David Napier designed it"
I also have to tell you that I only skimmed over your post and by the time I got to your warning it was to late, sorry.
Seriously Though, we are all here for the same reason and my post was not designed to upset anyone. For some reason brand loyalty always seems to start up some pretty heated debates.
In my eyes it is "mission accomplished" if you are out on the water, on a boat, having fun, with friends or family, and it does not matter if you are on a Boston Whaler or a 100 ft mega yacht.
Doug
1977 F-32
1982 Chris Craft 280
1992 Boston Whaler 13 Super Sport Limited
1974 F-25 (Sold)
1979 F-26 (sold)
