Trojan Boat Forum

I don't want to poke the bear here , but would a reason "not" to fog an engine over winter be?

That its not necessary on gas and you can't do it on a diesel .


Do you do it on your lawn equipment ? Your snow blower ?


Now if storing long term (year + ) I may .

Do you do it on your lawn equipment ? Your snow blower ?

Yup. Keep a can in the shed....

Regardless, one reason that it is so much more important on my boat, though, is that the Trojan manual for my tricab recommends wet winter storage. If an exhaust valve is open, each wave that laps against the hull, or rock of the hull, pumps moisture-saturated air in and out of that cylinder (recall that tricabins have underwater exhaust). I'd prefer that not happen for months at a time to an un- or marginally protected expensive-to-replace steel surface (that is in contact with aluminum!).

And that is exactly why I believe it is best to bump the engine over when being stored .Of course running it is #1 .


As far as lawn equipment your one of the few



BTW when do all change oil ?

I change the oil in the fall. Running the engine generates acids in the oil. It is best to sit the engine over the winter with fresh oil so the acids don't attack the metal. Fresh oil does not degrade from sitting like gasoline does, so having it sit over the winter doesn't have an impact.

I change the oil a couple of days before haulout and again no fogging just bump the starter every 2 to 4 weeks, actually today is check the tarp day and bump the starter day.

Craig

The Dog House wrote:....Fresh oil does not degrade from sitting like gasoline does, so having it sit over the winter doesn't have an impact.

On the contrary, this is one of the reasons behind the other school of thought that oil should be changed in the Spring. Oil starts to degrade from the moment it comes out of the ground and more so after you open a sealed container of refined oil. That's why they say replace oil after 90 days or x hours which ever comes first but few people do. Merc for example has asked me on a few occasions while diagnosing engine failures how old the oil was at the time of failure, and if they wanted to get real sticky about an engine failure under warranty due to what they consider as old oil, they can deny coverage if they decide to stick to their guns. Is there a noticable difference? Can't say, but I thought I'd put it out there. Some guys will change their oil twice before the new season; once in the Fall with the cheapest oil before lay-up because of combustion byproduct contamination, then again in the Spring with the oil they would run during the season because of the degradation. Personally I don't worry much about it unless it's a higher performance application. I don't worry about synthetic.

Big D wrote: Merc for example has asked me on a few occasions while diagnosing engine failures how old the oil was at the time of failure, and if they wanted to get real sticky about an engine failure under warranty due to what they consider as old oil, they can deny coverage if they decide to stick to their guns.

Oldest trick in the book. If you have any kind of vehicle under warranty, better save those oil change receipts.

Big D wrote:Some guys will change their oil twice before the new season; once in the Fall with the cheapest oil before lay-up because of combustion byproduct contamination, then again in the Spring with the oil they would run during the season because of the degradation. Personally I don't worry much about it unless it's a higher performance application. I don't worry about synthetic.

This is pretty much what I do. I use a full synthetic as my last oil change of the season and then switch to dino oil in the spring. I'm not as anal about it; I use the synthetic when I am about 30 hours away from lay-up. That oil sits for the winter. Then I'll change it after a few hours in the spring usually after launching and a shake-down cruise or two.

I've been using Shell Rotella in both synthetic and dino form and it seems to be working well. I have been using in in my truck with over 200,000 miles on the OD. I recently changed the rocker cover gaskets (again!) and it was noticeably cleaner this time.

bjanakos wrote:

Big D wrote: Merc for example has asked me on a few occasions while diagnosing engine failures how old the oil was at the time of failure, and if they wanted to get real sticky about an engine failure under warranty due to what they consider as old oil, they can deny coverage if they decide to stick to their guns.

Oldest trick in the book. If you have any kind of vehicle under warranty, better save those oil change receipts.

Maybe so, but oil change records and specifically the dates is exactly what they were looking for to determine how old the oil was when the engine failed if there were signs that failure was caused by a lubrication issue other than starvation. Hard to prove a failure is due to the age of a lubricant but if they get numbers in their favour out of an oil analysis, then you might have a fight on your hands.

Big D wrote:

The Dog House wrote:....Fresh oil does not degrade from sitting like gasoline does, so having it sit over the winter doesn't have an impact.

On the contrary, this is one of the reasons behind the other school of thought that oil should be changed in the Spring. Oil starts to degrade from the moment it comes out of the ground and more so after you open a sealed container of refined oil. That's why they say replace oil after 90 days or x hours which ever comes first but few people do. Merc for example has asked me on a few occasions while diagnosing engine failures how old the oil was at the time of failure, and if they wanted to get real sticky about an engine failure under warranty due to what they consider as old oil, they can deny coverage if they decide to stick to their guns. Is there a noticable difference? Can't say, but I thought I'd put it out there. Some guys will change their oil twice before the new season; once in the Fall with the cheapest oil before lay-up because of combustion byproduct contamination, then again in the Spring with the oil they would run during the season because of the degradation. Personally I don't worry much about it unless it's a higher performance application. I don't worry about synthetic.

From a chemistry perspective, any evaporation of the lower molecular weight fractions and general oxidation of the motor oil is insignificant given the molecular weights of the oil fractions used. Gasoline, with the fractions used having significantly lower molecular weights than motor oil, is affected negatively by evaporation and oxidation. Throw in the turmoil that the addition of ethanol adds, and you better use a stabilizer with your gasoline. Stabilizer is not needed for motor oil. There will be no significant difference in performance after motor oil sits inside an engine's crankcase for six months, especially when the majority of that time is less than 50 degrees F.

With regard to engine warranties, if the manufacturer requires that the oil be changed every 90 days than I would strongly encourage the owner of the engine to change the oil every 90 days for as long as the engine is under warranty. This has no basis from a chemistry perspective, but from a business perspective there is no reason to put the warranty at risk since the cost of an oil change is relatively small compared to the cost of an engine. Once the engine is out of warranty, a good policy to follow is to change the oil every 100 hours and at the end of the season. If this policy is followed, the engine will not fail due to chemical breakdown of the oil.

The Dog House wrote:....From a chemistry perspective, any evaporation of the lower molecular weight fractions and general oxidation of the motor oil is insignificant given the molecular weights of the oil fractions used. Gasoline, with the fractions used having significantly lower molecular weights than motor oil, is affected negatively by evaporation and oxidation. Throw in the turmoil that the addition of ethanol adds, and you better use a stabilizer with your gasoline. Stabilizer is not needed for motor oil. There will be no significant difference in performance after motor oil sits inside an engine's crankcase for six months, especially when the majority of that time is less than 50 degrees F....

Most deffinately agree

The Dog House wrote:....With regard to engine warranties, if the manufacturer requires that the oil be changed every 90 days than I would strongly encourage the owner of the engine to change the oil every 90 days for as long as the engine is under warranty. This has no basis from a chemistry perspective, but from a business perspective there is no reason to put the warranty at risk since the cost of an oil change is relatively small compared to the cost of an engine. Once the engine is out of warranty, a good policy to follow is to change the oil every 100 hours and at the end of the season. If this policy is followed, the engine will not fail due to chemical breakdown of the oil.

OEMs put it out there but not just for warranty compliance. They say it is simply prudent preventive maintenance even if out of warranty and they claim it's because of breakdown. Perhaps the additives? don't know but I'll defer to them as they've been doing R&D longer than me. In any case, I change in the Fall with a good oil and again during the season if I put a lot of hours on her, and don't worry much about anything else oil wise.