Trojan Boat Forum

This thread has really gone south.

I have digital tachs in addition to the analogs, which I think are worth their weight in gold for syncing engines while at cruising speed. Your ear will tell you when the engines are out of sync, but won't tell you which engine is faster or slower.

obeejr wrote:This thread has really gone south.

I have digital tachs in addition to the analogs, which I think are worth their weight in gold for syncing engines while at cruising speed. Your ear will tell you when the engines are out of sync, but won't tell you which engine is faster or slower.

They are good for getting sync for sure . My self, I don't like digital gages at all . But if you do they do a good job

BMILLER wrote:I have erratic tachometer readings (at best). Would it make sense to install engine sync gauges and not totally replace all the tachs. Seems as though the port tach at both stations is hanging, etc. Flybridge one starts to work after running a while and lower stabilizes when I turn on the instrument panel lights. I can't find any loose or corroded wires or connections.............yet. I thought maneuvering would be MUCH better knowing which engine is faster/slower. Now its a nightmare. I can't tell by the sound of the engines?
Tachs are Apelco..........OEM I presume.
Just wondering if this would be a easy way to "make do"..?

'78 F28, 318's

Okay 'B'... forget the 'B(S)' you have seen in some of the previous posts.... some people have a tendency to lose focus and get a bit off track......

You can usually tell by ear if you are in synch or not, but it might take a bit to develop the skill. Hard to depict here, but if you hear a repeating droning sound (..........ooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo.....) - can't really include an audio clip, but assume the dots are quiet, the o's are louder, the O's are louder still, and the cycle repeats... - that means the engines are out of synch. Don't really know if it is differences in the props, engines, or just exhaust you are hearing but if you hear the WoWoWoWoW sound, you are out of synch. The faster the WoWoWoW happens, the more the speed is off... the slower the WoWoW is the closer you are to synch. This is a LOT easier to hear while running at higher speeds.

At speed, being in synch is best as it is easier on both engines, the running gear, and the hull, and it is easier on the steering - you are not fighting the engines. It is also safer as you have consistent push on both sides, so if you launch off a wave or dig your bow into one, all you need to worry about is proper steering and not side effects of different power torquing the boat sideways on you.

In close quarters, if the engines are in synch it makes it easier (or at least more predictable) to maneuver. Again, with the same thrust on both sides, the boat won't corkscrew on its own.... by shifting forward/neutral/reverse and / or steering you will be in complete control.

I would recommend replacing ANY instruments you don't trust. If port and starboard are behaving differently, you can try swapping them to find out if the problem is the instrument or wiring/sending unit (if the port tach is still messed up after swapping port for starboard, then the problem is sending unit/wiring/ground; if the problem moves to starboard, then it is the instrument). I have replaced all mine with Teleflex Red International instruments after a lightning strike knocked out half of them.

I also had a new set of Engine Synch gauges installed (also Teleflex Red Internationals). At low speeds near the docks, you might not be able to hear the difference in engine speed, so the synch is the best way to tell for sure. Since throttles and idle stops on the carburetors may get out of whack over time I tend to get my engines synched up as I approach the marina - slow to idle speed, tweak throttles until both engines are idling the same (per synch) while the wife is getting fenders and lines ready, then enter the marina.

To comment on some of the other comments : there is a time and place for adding power while in close quarters. Too many yahoos think it's the macho thing to do to hit the slip doing 5 knots and miraculously stop in time... and too many more yahoos do it because they don't know any better. If you are not fighting a current or massive winds, you don't need throttle. The more throttle you apply, the faster the boat will move; which means the more throttle or force you will need to stop it, or the more damage it will do (to the boat, the dock, or the crew who try to stop it). SLOW is your friend. I love to watch the guys who hit the slip at 5 knots, ram the dock in front of them, and blame it on some crewmember who "didn't tie the spring line off in time". These are the boaters I avoid on the water because they are dangerous, reckless jackasses who don't know what the *H* they are doing.

A few years back I saw a guy with a 40' Sheppard flush deck (I think - it was a while ago). Decided he need to spin the boat really quickly in a confined channel, so hammered shifters and throttles in quick succession. Probably turned the boat in half the time it would have taken if he was just idling and split the gears, but almost threw a bunch of his passengers into the drink in the process as the hull lurched forward and backwards / side to side every time he hammered a control. If the dipstick that used to run Skid Row out of Toronto back in the 70's/80's is on this forum, I am talking about you.

Above I said I slow to idle speed as I approach the marina... (600-700 RPM). If it's blowing hard, I might up the idle a bit (to maybe 800-1000rpm depending on conditions) before I enter the marina so the props have that much more bite when I hit forward or reverse, but I NEVER goose the throttles while maneuvering in close quarters. If the engines get out of synch, I have to try to fight/counter the corkscrew effect, which means I am not really in control anymore.

I have only goosed the throttles once in 11 years with the boat : while trying to back out of my slip on haulout day a couple of years back. The wind was blowing me forward in my slip (25-30 mph wind with gusts to 40+). With all lines off I hauled as hard as I could on the stern line - with the force of the wind on the salon windows, I couldn't make the boat move backwards at all... at most I moved it a couple of inches. Running aboard and hitting reverse didn't do any better. I had to push both engines up to 1500 RPM to back out of my slip (and then turning was even more fun!!)

Use power if (and only if) and when required. Throttle is not your friend..... control is.

My recommendation : check and/or replace your tachs, but don't trust them implicitly. Get a reliable synch setup as well.

I have a different take on the use of the Throttle when docking but with good reason . Not a argument by any means

I guess I maybe a yahoo then , however my idle speed is apox 5 knots ( remember I have diesels ) and I still use the Throttle at times . when docking a gas boat I almost always use the Throttle as needed .

Whats the difference between me and you ?
Its as simple as where we boat at . In this area the norm is to back in to your slip . also being a tidal area there is almost always a current running and you need to fight that . So doing a 90 deg. turn to back in to your slip the use of the throttle is offend needed or you may end up someplace other then you slip .

Now if I was pulling bow in , I don't see me using the Throttle . The only time I do pull bow in is at the travel lift dock and can remember using the throttles ever.

BTWuse of the Throttle in way means heavy Throttle

prowlersfish wrote:being a tidal area there is almost always a current running and you need to fight that . So doing a 90 deg. turn to back in to your slip the use of the throttle is offend needed or you may end up someplace other then you slip .

Like I said, there is a time and place ... and fighting a heavy current qualifies. Or, if you could plan your arrivals and departures closer to slack tide you wouldn't have to worry about it.

Planing to boat with the tides , thats a sail boat thing.

So I can just go and not worry about the tides as its no issue docking anytime as I am use to it ( well 40 knot wind maybe)

Geez, almost sorry I asked about the syncs. I appreciate everyone's replys. On this size and weight boat, I'm a definite novice and the flybridge station adds even more fun to the task. I'll try switching the tachs side to side to start. I can't tell by engine sound because my port engine is much louder out of the exhaust.........but that's another issue. For now I'm pulling in............my slip faces SW and we have normal SW winds in the 10-20mph range, sometimes much higher sustained. No current.

While I'm up here, does anyone know the wire routing for the bow nav lights. I am replacing the existing ones with new LED units, but the 10ga wires coming thru the top of the hull can't be moved............up or especially down. Almost seems like they are molded in at assembly. I need to attach my tiny LED wires to them and was trying to step down the sizes. My soldering skills are ..........mediocre at best and the boat is in the water. The new LEDs have zero interior space to hide the wires so I'm probably going to fabricate a device to raise the LED off the deck. My "project" goes 1 step fwd and 10 steps bkwrd.

Promised the BH we'd be ready to at least take it out by spring.............jsut didn't tell her which one.................)

Those light wires most likely are caulk in the hole and you will need to dig them out ( Fun) the should not be 10 gage may 16 ? Once you dig out the caulk you will have room ( sill not much ) If not you will need to go to the under side and pull them thru . I have been thru this on my F30 and F36 .

Unfortunately those wires are 10ga. I'm betting one of the PO's played with them..............on this nav light setup the starboard side is red negative, black positive. Port is opposite.................just my luck. I've decided to go to Plan B and have already mfg new mounts so I can relocate the new nav lights "higher", but in the same for/aft location. I'm not concerned about keeping is original. The Trojan light covers and bases are ok, but the actual socket is corroded and the lenses are cracked and weathered, hence the new LEDs. Same with the fwd masthead/anchor light and stern light........all new LED assemblies.

Make sure they are coast guard approved for your area, not all LED nav lights on the market are. They must meet a minimum mile visibility requirement.

Rule 22 (c) of the Navigation Rules specifies how bright your lights must be. If your boat is less than 12 meters (39.37 feet) in length, your masthead light must be bright enough to be visible for a distance of two miles, and your red and green side lights (even if you use a combined red and green light on the bow) must be visible for one mile. Your anchor light, the all-around white light on your mast that indicates you're anchored at night, must be visible for two miles.

There's no specification regarding the distance at which your stern light must be visible, since vessels less than 12 meters may carry a combined red/green light that incorporates a white stern light.

Rule 22 (b) applies if your boat is between 12 meters (39.37 feet) and 49.9 meters (163.7 feet) in length. Vessels over 12 meters in length are required to carry a stern light visible for a distance of two miles, and separate red and green sidelights, also visible for two miles. The masthead light must be visible for five miles, with this exception: if your boat is between 12 and 19.9 meters (65.29 feet) in length, your masthead light need only be visible for three miles.



Read more: How to Calculate Marine Lighting | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5817826_calcula ... z1iEbcs4GH

Bought Attwood 2 mile sidelights and 3 mile masthead and stern light. I prefer to fish at night so I upped the anchor lights to the 3 mile ones. overkill but at least they will see me.

BMILLER wrote:Bought Attwood 2 mile sidelights and 3 mile masthead and stern light. I prefer to fish at night so I upped the anchor lights to the 3 mile ones. overkill but at least they will see me.

What's the current temp down there? Fish where ?

Today Jan 8 is 60 degrees about 100 mile SE of Lake Texoma, where he fishes at

captainmaniac wrote:To comment on some of the other comments : there is a time and place for adding power while in close quarters. Too many yahoos think it's the macho thing to do to hit the slip doing 5 knots and miraculously stop in time... and too many more yahoos do it because they don't know any better. If you are not fighting a current or massive winds, you don't need throttle. The more throttle you apply, the faster the boat will move; which means the more throttle or force you will need to stop it, or the more damage it will do (to the boat, the dock, or the crew who try to stop it). SLOW is your friend. I love to watch the guys who hit the slip at 5 knots, ram the dock in front of them, and blame it on some crewmember who "didn't tie the spring line off in time". These are the boaters I avoid on the water because they are dangerous, reckless jackasses who don't know what the *H* they are doing.

Agreed. I have another word for these folks, but yahoos I suppose is family friendly. Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I was a dock boy. During this time I got to become very familiar with this type of yahoo. I learned very quickly that any collision due to poor handling of the craft was a combination of my ineptitude on the dock and the crews (wife and kids) inability to do anything properly at all. I also learned that gratuities were much higher when these sorts were around. One because they probably didn't want me to tell the world what an idiot they were, and two because some other folks felt sorry for me that I had to deal with those kinds of morons regularly. Now life is more complicated and have much different job. There are however still yahoos to deal with on a regular basis.

BOT. I have run lots of boats. Some with synchs, (all different kinds, needles, red and green led's and the old skewl flashing 'eye' style) some without. Now I rarely use one at all. I use my ears mostly, and if equipped will occasionally glance at the sync to see if my skills are still up to par.