Trojan Boat Forum

Hi all;
I have a '79 F30, and while it was out for winter, I noticed that the rudders are not aligned. When the port one is straight ahead, the starboard one is pointing perhaps 10 degrees to the right. I inspected the control mechanisms, and had a fellow boater also have a look, but we didn't find a solution. His idea (based on his much newer Chris-Craft) was that the bar connecting the two tiller arms could be lengthened/shortened by screwing it into/out of the turnbuckles at either end of it. This doesn't appear to be the case on mine, as there doesn't look to be enough thread at the ends of the bar to really adjust it.

So, how to get the starboard rudder aligned?

Should also note that there is very limited working room down there, and I can barely reach most of the nuts/bolts - if I ever get into that space, I may not get back out.........

Thanks in advance for any help!!

First, be certain that the rudder is in fact out of alignment. Your rudders should be aligned such that the prop wash crosses. This means that when you hold your port rudder perfectly straight, you should expect to see your starboard rudder positioned as if to turn the boat to port. Is this the case?

Brett

Your frend is correct on how to ajust the toe . However the rudders should have some toe in ( or out in some cases ) I like a few degrees toe in (at the front) but some boats do better with toe out . you do not want them stright .
turn the wheel and get them as stright as possable ( both maybe pointed out sligtly at the back ) then measure the front of one rudder to the front of the other rudder now do the back .if you find the back is 1/4 to 1/2 farther apart then you good to go ( if you find them closer in the back then its toed out and thats ok too.

I don't fully agree with the prop wash statement if you toed out (at the front) you may get the cross over if toed in you may not . Hull shape has a big factory on that as speed look at the wash at 5 knots then at 20
water flow at speed tends to push the prop wash to center (together)

I have heard thats the way some folks ajust outboards but thats not what you have

prowlersfish wrote:
turn the wheel and get them as stright as possable ( both maybe pointed out sligtly at the back ) then measure the front of one rudder to the front of the other rudder now do the back .if you find the back is 1/4 to 1/2 farther apart then you good to go

Thanks for the input - The rear of starboard one is more like 3 inches off-center, that's why I'm concerned.

ltbrett wrote: This means that when you hold your port rudder perfectly straight, you should expect to see your starboard rudder positioned as if to turn the boat to port. Is this the case?

Brett

Thanks for the info - the rear of the starboard rudder is offset to the right, so the boat would go to starboard.

I have a F-36 and my toe is 3 degrees. you should be able to find out what the toe should be for your boat, but 3 inches is way too much.

Lookout wrote:3 inches is way too much.

That's pretty much what I figured - but, looking at the tiller arm connecting rod, I don't think I have 3'' of threads (or, 1-1/2" on either side) to make that large of an adjustment. Doesn't look like it, anyway.

No other way of adjusting the rudders?

rjcress wrote: Is it 3" on starboard, or 1.5" on each side?

When the port rudder is straight, the rear of the starboard is pointing about 3" to the right. If I even them up, they would likely be 1.5" each. Maybe it isn't an issue, but any other boat I see has both rudders appearing to be fairly straight ahead.

Your manual (if you have one) should describe the right setup / specs in the steering section (I know mine does).

I have a '79 F32, with the Syten hydraulic steering. Different model than yours, but if you don't have original specs I can look up the factory specs for the F32s to give you a sense of what *might* be close to what you should have.

00GTP wrote:

rjcress wrote: Is it 3" on starboard, or 1.5" on each side?

When the port rudder is straight, the rear of the starboard is pointing about 3" to the right. If I even them up, they would likely be 1.5" each. Maybe it isn't an issue, but any other boat I see has both rudders appearing to be fairly straight ahead.

It is an issue that should be addressed since the rudders being that far out will create un-necesary drag. 3" total is way too much.

On most boats, there is a "toe spec" meaning the rudders should not be pointing dead straight as this could induce a flutter situation since the linkage always has some play. Toe in normally produces stearn squat while toe out normally produces stearn lift.

I would presume the F-30 is setup the same as the F-32 sisce most manufacturers usually spec toe as a compliment to a particular hulls design. If memeopry serves, my F-32 had a toe spec both for the rudders and the rudder tiller arms inside the hull. The tiller arm toe tends to aid in the ackerman effect (where the inside steering arm turns in tighter radius than the outer).

The manual I have is actually a 'generic' 1979 manual, covering the basics for all models. I have scanned the 2 pages related to steering and steering adjustment. Here are links :

I sized the images for 1024x768 resolution - good for looking at online, but not sure how well they might (might not) scale to print. This is my first attempt at using photobucket... hopefully I posted to photobucket correctly, and these links work ! If not, PM me with your direct email address and I can send the jpg files that way.

(Ignore the stuff that is circled on the pages - previous owner marked the manual up to highlight which version of the hydraulic steering was in the boat).

To adjust toe in/out, the other posts re adjusting the length of the connecting bar between the tiller arms are correct (at least on an F32). The bar is threaded on both ends, so twisting one way will toe the rudders out, the other way will toe them in. In my case, the rudders are a bit off thanks to a previous owner (or service person) who used the bar as a convenient 'step' climbing in and out of the bilge area, so it's kinda bent, causing a bit more toe-in on the tiller arms / toe-out on the rudders than there should be. Worst case, if things are WAY off and there just isn't enough adjustment, you might be able to replace the bar with a custom job cut to exactly the right length etc...

Thanks much, captainmaniac, really appreciate it!

And thanks to all who responded.

The written instructions seem incredably complex-like how is blade width measured? tiller arm length? I have a 1980 "generic" about the same info which always left a question in my mind. How would all the degree measurements be determined? Would really appreciate any further thoughts. Mine is a 79 .F36 alpine 108

Lookout wrote:I have a F-36 and my toe is 3 degrees. you should be able to find out what the toe should be for your boat, but 3 inches is way too much.

What do you use to measure 3 degrees? Alpine108