Trojan Boat Forum

Doing some work on my F-28 this afternoon, including walking around tightning all screws and such. well I have several bow rail screws that were loose and wouldnt tighten.
Im quessing that they are tru bolts and nuts. my question is how in the hell to you get to the nuts without having to tear everything apart on the inside????!!!!!!

I don't think they are through-bolted...will likely have to back them out,use appropriate epoxy filler,drill pilot holes and reinstall...

I belive they are thru bolted

gofish103 wrote:Doing some work on my F-28 this afternoon, including walking around tightning all screws and such. well I have several bow rail screws that were loose and wouldnt tighten.
Im quessing that they are tru bolts and nuts. my question is how in the hell to you get to the nuts without having to tear everything apart on the inside????!!!!!!

You don't ....The stanchion support brackets are thru bolted... can you reach the loose ones (2 forward sets I believe) via the anchor locker door? If the problem ones are further aft than that it is not too hard to get at them, just a little time consuming. I believe your inside finish is similar to an F32, if not ignore this:
On my F32 if I remove the teak shelf (2 piece) that runs alonside the sides of V berth (visible screws top and side) then the upper side panel is also removed by removing screws along the top edge (about 1/4" down). That should give you access to the nuts for the railings & cleats as the headliner does not go to the hull sides. Does the headliner need changing, if so you are now ready to do it. Or one can change the covering of that top panel to change the decor (we went from vinyl to material finish on ours) Of course that now makes my earlier comment of "not too hard" invalid.
While you are there it may be a good time to upgrade the running lights... of course that can be done from topsides only anyway.

bolts that spin and dont tighten suck,
if they are through bolted,, you can attempt to spin them fast with a power driver, (thats a mechanic trick) sometimes you can tighten them that way, or if they are stripped sheet metal type screws, your gonna have to go oversize or remove , fill and re, install, they make some very good quick setting epoxy, and I like JB Weld myself, its everything proof, and they now have a quick set formula. but if there through bolted, sometimes its nearly impossible to get to the backing nut, so some people opt to use an aggressive self tapping screw to eliminate that issue, , if done correctly they can hold very well, especially for a railing

The bolts on my F36 have nuts. I am replacing the core from below. At the moment I have the head and hull liner down in the front state room. I've cut the lower layer of glass and removed the old core. Here is a picture of the bolts holding the rail fittings. You can see that they are through bolted and have nuts. You can't tighten them without opening things up.

gjrylands wrote:I am replacing the core from below. At the moment I have the head and hull liner down in the front state room. I've cut the lower layer of glass and removed the old core.

Are you replacing with crosscut balsa or an alternative plank material?
I have always wondered how one gets a good seal between topside glass and the new core while working from below while gravity works against you. What is your plan?
I have been told by experts (who don't do it your way) that air spaces between the new core and the top glass are a potential failure point when subsequent load is repeatedly put on the outside skin and that once cracks appear allow for water to get back in (micro cracks which are not easily seen are of major concern).
I have been told that the outside skin is thinner than the glass you have removed (the lower glass gives the major rigidity/strength of the cap design). Make sure you get a good overlap joint between new and old glass on the underside joint.
Working from above is apparently the preferred and easier way and one has the advantage of new glass/gel facing the elements at the end of the job.... the underside glass has zero weathering concerns.
Back in November when you first brought this job up here there were a number of us suggesting you do it from above. At that time you stated you were going to try in the anchor locker area and see how difficult it was. Did you in fact find it easy and so are doing it all from below?
I'm interested in if working from below is not as bad as I had been told.

[gg

On my F44 my railing screws are just course thread screws. some of mine are stripped as well so I usually take a 12 gauge wire and stick it in the hole and then screw the screw back in. Tightens them right up..

Just an FYI for International owners.

The bow rail is bolted on with nuts on the bottom of the fasteners.

There are steel plates (I don't remember if they were galvanized or not) under the deck.

I removed my bow rail in 2004 with the help of several friends so we could rebed the bases.

You should see the backing plates on the cleats!

These boats were certainly built right.

RWS

Well, they are either bolt thru's or screws.................I guess I'll try to back out on of the loose ones and see what it is. Unfortunately my headliner is in good shape an im afraid messing with it will create a bigger issue.

I'll be going back up this coming weekend and I'll update everyone what type of hardware was used on a 1976 F-28.

Thanks everyone for the input.

Gofish, Hate to tell you but all stanchion bases are through bolted. If they are not, they have been replaced with self tappers. Not good. You will have to go in and find them. My Trojan F36 came with a box of new fittings (full set) from the previous owner who realized just how big a job replacing them was. The major reason for replacement is resealing. Water leaks in this area are the prime cause of deck core rot/replacement discussed many times in this forum. JImbo36

gofish103 wrote:Well, they are either bolt thru's or screws.................I guess I'll try to back out on of the loose ones and see what it is. Unfortunately my headliner is in good shape an im afraid messing with it will create a bigger issue.

I'll be going back up this coming weekend and I'll update everyone what type of hardware was used on a 1976 F-28.

Thanks everyone for the input.

I don't thing getting to the nuts is that difficult. You should have a piece of teak trim running around the outside of the head liner. Once it is removed it exposes the staples holding the edge of the head liner. You can remove those staples, the head liner can be folded back to expose the nuts.

Re-stapling the head liner shouldn't be a problem, just use monel staples. (Arrow with T-50 stapler) The teak trim will go right back.

What ever you do, you have to keep the water out of the core.

RWS, Do you need to pull the head liner to get to the bow rail nuts? I wanted to re bed my rail this year but don't know if I have to mess with the headliner.

Scott,

The headliner in the Express Cruiser is built into the cabin. It's not really a headliner at all, just fiberglass that serves a dual purpose of providing the overhead ductwork for the HVAC system.

It's not removable.

The bowrail bases are accessible through various access points. The anchor locker, the flourescent light covers, the built in medicine cabinet in the head and the closet.

Further back you're simply under the gunnels.

We did one side at a time to be safe and not lose the entire rail overboard.

A few wooden blocks for support while you're working makes the job easier.

RWS