Trojan Boat Forum

Hi all - looking for some troubleshooting assistance on a steering issue that developed over the weekend. 'Search' turned up a similar incident with someone else, but didn't indicate the source of the problem or the fix...

I have a 1971 F31 with dual helms. Sunday, in the middle of delivering her back to Narragansett Bay, the lower helm developed a problem - boat kept pulling to port. From the flybridge, all controls were working fine.

When the problem developed, we tested the top and bottom control stations as well as the port and starboard engines. Since the top station was OK, we knew the rudders weren't fouled, and separate engine tests confirmed that the props weren't fouled.

When we were just off the destination marina, I retried the lower station - still screwy. Looking into the lazarette, I checked the rudder quadrant motion from the top station and saw full range of motion from port to stbd, stop to stop. From the lower station, the helm turned fully to port, but only got to about centerline turning back to stbd. Not willing to take the boat 200 miles only to prang her while trying to bring her into a new marina with 15 kt breeze setting us sideways and screwy steering, I called SeaTow for assistance.

Being new to this boat, I am trying to learn as fast as I can, but I am not familiar with the steering setup here and therefore where to start troubleshooting.

Q1: Have any of you had this problem, or something similar?

Q2: If so, what was your troubleshooting plan? (i.e. what are the steering components that only affect the lower station?)

Q3: Where did you find the problem?

Q4: How did you fix it?

I understand that, now that she is home, the simple answer is" hire a mechanic to fix it", but if it happened once, it can happen again, most likely at a time when I am the only "mechanic", so I'd like to get the benefit of your years of experience to better understand the source of such a problem and the fix...if the fix is too complicated, then I will get a mechanic on it.

Sorry to trouble you - any and all assitance with this is greatly appreciated!

Is it cable steering ?

if its hydraulic look closely to identify which brand/manufacturer and model of steering

What steering? Chain/Rod, Cable or Hydraulic?

The F32's had a chain drive setup feeding rods that needs to rebuilt (the gear box behind the lower helm needs to be taken apart and spacers put in to mesh the worn gears - and then put back together).

I went to the boat yesterday and took pictures (not sure how to post them).

Basically, I checked the flybridge setup and noted what appears to be a blue steering cable coming from the fly helm, descending down the port bridge riser to the engine room, passing to the fuel tank area and attaching to the upper steering quadrant.

I took the access panel off in the head to see the setup of the pilothouse steering and noticed a similar blue cable (approx 3/4" thick) running from just below the wheel, down along the stbd side aft to the lower rudder quadrant. PLEASE NOTE: I am assuming these are cables; it's possible that there is a worm gear compressing a reservoir of fluid to activate the rudders, I suppose...too new to this to speculate.

Questions:
1. Does this setup match your setup? Is it fairly standard?
2. Is this setup using a worm gear to move cable in and out?
3. Have you ever experienced this kind of failure in a similar system?
4. It would seem odd for the cable to go; before I disassemble the dash, I think I'll look into detaching the lower cable from the stbd rudder quadrant and manually moving the lower quadrant - if it has full motion, then the issue likely is at the dash.

I note that the owners manual indicated a chain steering system, which must have been removed and replaced at some point...

If you only have one cable / hose whatever coming from each helm, it is most likely a mechanical push / pull steering cable. If it were hydraulic, you would have a cylinder connected to the rudder quadrant. If it is a mechanical cable, the lower one being partially froze up would cause the problem you describe. Try to find the mechanism that allows input from two cables to operate one rudder and disconnect the lower cable. Turn the lower wheel stop to stop and see if the cable operates full travel.

Mike, the steering is cable operated as I mentioned to you when you bought the boat,
there is a cable running from the bridge to the rudders, and another running from the lower helm to the rudders, the both meet at a bellcrank setup which uses a small switching cam to switch over from lower helm to flybridge steering. basically you have to line up the bellcrank to engage either of them to switch over,
both are cable operated, there is no hydraulic actuators etc. ifyour lower helm is unresponsive from either port or starboard, but does work in one direction, its pretty clear that it either has a broken cable, the mount is off where it is secured to the boat , or it needs to be adjusted. I did note there is a previous repair, not done by me at the lower cable directly near the rudder bellcrank.. I did go over all of this with you when you bought the boat. you must have forgot. or ?? anyway its a pretty super basic setup, and dont see it being difficult to diagnois

Bill - thanks for the response. Noted the repairs, don't know what changed, had a full three turns of lower helm on Saturday when I put a tape center mark on the lower helm; Sunday afternoon, only had two turns. Don't know if part of the cable housing slid down preventing full movement, just want to get to full steering from both stations to eliminate "surprises" when in tight situations. Will probably go to the boat this afternoon to finish taking apart the dash so that I can see the wheel end and determine if some wire or other piece is fouling the wheel/cable intersection. Hoping you are enjoying your new boat!

I worked with http://www. through the entire process of modifying my ATV and boat. They have A+ customer service and an excellent line of cable and restraints. If you are looking for Mechanical Cables cma is the way to go!


Please inform Me Of any spam (Mod)
Thank you Rossjo


BTW I am sure you can get cables from Bob

kimsmith wrote:I worked with http://www.cmacable.com through the entire process of modifying my ATV and boat. They have A+ customer service and an excellent line of cable and restraints. If you are looking for Mechanical Cables cma is the way to go!
_________________
Kim Smith
a href="http://cmacable.com/">Mechanical Cables</a>

Exact same postings in May on:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/15547/to ... _any_speed
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/electrica ... ronic.html
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/sho ... in=5940551
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/sho ... in=5940551
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2735621
http://designapplause.com/2009/shimano- ... fter/2088/

Won't post pictures but the boat is on the hard having transom repairs done. Turns out that there is sort of a compounding error going on; I pass along the details for your amusement.

On my boat, there is an upper and lower station. The upper station's steering cable comes down the port flybridge strut and runs past the fuel tanks before going thru a standoff and connecting to the upper rudder quadrant - this works fine.

The lower station cable runs down the starboard side and past the fuel tanks. At some point in the past, the standoff failed (why?), and the then owner used a hardware store hose clamp and resin to glop the standoff's articulating head to a cross-brace; he then removed the standoff base from the inside of the transom and glopped resin over the three bolts that had been holding the standoff to the transom - LEAVING THE ORIGINAL BOLTS IN THE TRANSOM WITH NO LOAD. As these corroded, they began a slow leak. The leak wasn't really apparent until a friend noticed it while helping me analyze the cable motion; when he poke the fiberglass repair with a screwdriver to show me where the leak was, the leak got bigger. At that point, it was clear that the boat would need to be pulled for proper repairs. One other point - it appears the standoffs were fastened using carriage bolts (can anyone confirm this from their experience?); as they were tightened down, they crushed the fiberglass transom skin.

The yard has ordered the standoff and is installing it today; all of the bolts for port and starboard standoffs are being replaced with hex head stainless bolts and fender washers; at that point they will begin to address the lower station steering issue - hoping that it will not require a cable replacement, but that remains to be seen.

PLEASE NOTE - this is not to point any fingers; only to point out the true costs of "cheap" repairs years down the road (there are other threads around that play on this theme too). I will provide updates on the final fixes required for the lower station steering in case anyone else has a similar issue in the future.

Thanks all!

Boat went back in last Friday; took her out Wednesday night.

In re steering, no cable problems, so the installation of the new standoff resolved the lower station steering issue.

While she was out, also added redundant bilge pumps in the engine room and lazarette, and replaced the lower shifts and flybridge throttles and shifts, as well as the windlass.

There are a few additional areas that will require work, such as soundproofing, some rewiring, installation of a holding tank, etc. but for now, just looking forward to enjoying some time on the water!