Back to looking at 11 Meters

[rpdwyer]

Hello.

In the past I had posted about my interest in 11 meters. However, I made a deposit on a 1991 34' Silverton Express so I thought I had finally found my boat. However the preliminary survey showed every single stringer in the boat to be wet... surveyor couldn't find a dry spot to determine what a solid stringer should sound like in a hammer test so he couldn't really tell me the condition of the stringers.

So I'm back looking at 11 meters. I found one that has been on blocks for a few years now. Broker insists the boat was properly winterized before it went into deep sleep a few years ago.

My questions are as follows: If properly winterized, is it reasonable to assume that engines (gas crusaders and the Onan genny), which were running fine before winterization, should be ok now? Can the engines be started out of the water to determine how they run or is it necessary for cooling to have the boat in the water?

Do the 11 meters (1988) have a history of stringer or hull issues (I haven't really read about any other than when an owner decides to drill a whole through the hull that isn't sealed properly)

TIA
--Rick

[todd brinkerhoff]

Boats that sit tend to have issues. You will need to check the fuel tank for water. If it has water, the entire tank will need to be emptied prior to your trial. Impellers that are sitting in alcohol (antifreeze) tend to get brittle, so those will need be checked also.

Engines can be started out of the water, but you will need to hook up a water source to a section of your raw water intake. It is to run a closed system out of the water, but in any case, you need to supply water to the RWS.

Generator will have same issues.

Any sale must be contingent on a successful sea trial. If the boat passes a survey on the blocks, the owner will have to get it set up for sea trial.

My boat sat for a year without use prior to my purchase. The then current owner had the boat cared for every winter, but did not use it after he put it up for sale. Boat sat for awhile until I came around. This caused some issues that he was required to take care of before the sea trial. I had a better relationship with the broker, and he informed me that the owner spent several thousand dollars to get the boat ready.

[rbcool]

Todd is exactly right. For these situations I have a portable fuel pump with hoses at each end and 12v leads. I would disconnect fuel line from the filter then hook up my pump and suck out enough fuel to fill a QT. mason jar. then set the jar on the ground for a few minutes to see what the fuel looked like. I also carry a portable 6 gal Jonboat tank that I can hook up directly to an engine to bypass the main fuel tanks and get her started.
I start boats on the hard a couple dozen times a year. Just did one 3 days ago. I usually just close the seacock then stick a garden hose into the seastrainer. Works perfect
Definately have a surveyor go over it

Ron

[Audrey II]

Rick I'm glad you decided to pass on the Silverton I followed your posts on BE. I know you were disappointed but you made the right move. Sitting a long time is not good for any boat but those that are cared for can hold up OK. I have a friend on my dock that was determined to buy a 10 meter, he found one that appeared to be in decent shape but was sitting for several years the owner spent about 3k prepping it for the sea trial thinking the sale was a done deal. once the boat was launched they found a laundry list of problems that would have cost about 10k more at a min most of the issue were do to sitting. Even the broker told him to pass He decided to walk and found an F36 and loves it only thing he has had to do so far is wax it. When you find the right deal you will know it. Whatever you do don't let emotions sway your decisions and always get a survey. I don't recall were you boat but there is no rush specially if it's the off season take your time and look everywhere at everything.

When I sold my last boat my plan was to find a Cruisers 4270 I thought it was a great boat for my needs. I looked high and low from Florida to Boston and found a few most had issues price was a big factor and never found the right deal that I could live with. One day my wife and I decided to take a ride early one Saturday and look at as many boats as we could thing within 75 mile radius I made a list from online listing of all sorts of boats while looking at a listing from a dealer with a 4270 I noticed the Trojan 440 they had listed on there site as well, I was unfamiliar with the boat but it looked great in the pictures. I stopped in to look at the boats the dealer had and fell in love on the spot. My point is there are many boats out there some you are familiar and many you are not, look at as many boats as you can before you make a decision. From what I have read from your posts you have bounced around a bit from cruisers to Silvertons to Trojans that's all well and good but I would start with a style boat and do as much research into the different models and features then narrow down your choices. It seems to me and I could be wrong but it looks like you are going about this backwards , it looks like you are looking for a good deal in any boat and then deciding if it will work for your needs. I'm not trying to knock you in any way I'm just trying to help. Boating is a commitment of both time and money make sure you get something both you and your family can and will enjoy for years to come. Not a hole in the water you soon regret.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to buy and I hope to see you someday on the water.

[rpdwyer]

Thanks to everyone for chiming in.

Yes, I have been looking at a spectrum of boats including:

Trojan 11 Meter
Silverton 34 X

Sea Ray 310 DA
Cruisers 3270
Carver Montego 35'

The Trojan has always been my number 1 choice. I've been on two 11 meters and the amount of space, interior layout and exterior design is spot on as far as what I have been looking for. I love this boat. But price wise, I can't touch them unless I am willing to take on a project... which I am as I can do a lot of mechanical.

Silverton (1990 - 1995) 34' Express is a close second though. Again interior layout is nice on this boat. And this boat gets a little better than 1 nm/g so in this regard, it is considerably better on gas than the 11 meter (.6 mm/g I read???). I like this boat very much also, but the one I found that put a deposit on came back with the stringers completely wet... everyone of them. Two surveyors and Silverton have all told me the same thing... wet stringers means nothing with regards to structural integrity (except for where the motor mounts) as they truly were for forms only. But the idea of them being wet bothers me... added weight.... problems reselling... etc. I actually haven't closed the door on the Silverton yet... but I am close as I don't think I want the uncertainity.

These are the two true contenders.

The other boats in the list above I have looked at based on price only. They are all to be had for under 13K. That figure means A LOT to my wife... who isn't 100% thrilled with the idea of spending money on a boat.

So I would like to spend this next summer going out to Block Island on one of the first two choices on my list. But trying to do this without a loan limits me to the boats I can realistically consider.

--Rick

[prowlersfish]

Not trying to be mean but 2 facts
1)you wont get a good boat in the class for 13k . it will be a project boat maybe look for a smaller better (or older?) boat would be in order

2) that silverton will not get over 1 nm/g or even close unless you plan on running under 7 knots all the time

[Audrey II]

I hate to be a downer and I understand the money is an obstacle as it is for most but when it comes to buying an inexpensive boat the boat will simply be the least expensive part of the equation. I'm also aware you are considering keeping said boat on a mooring again to keep down costs which again is great however these are all flags that scream maybe you should wait another year until you can swing a little bit more reliable boat because to maintain an older boat maybe far more then the payments on a slightly newer boat. Again I hate to rain on someone else's parade but you might want to check out the costs thread on BE it's a real eye opener especially to me. I have been boating for many years and fortunate in that I have been able to do so without to many worries as to cost. I never stopped to add up the actual costs until this thread, yes I knew it was a lot of money but tried to put it out of my mind and ignore it. All I can say is WOW I will not go into the details here but I will say this for the first ten years of my career I didn't earn as much annually as I spent last year on my boat, that is insane.

This season I took a one week trip with friends to the LI Sound with several ports of call including Montauk, Block Island, Port Jeff, Essex Island (which I just remember you will be near) and Cos Cob CT. I spent each night at a nice marina and most nights went out to dinner. All other meals we eat on board to cut down on expenses:) the cost of this trip alone was just over 4k including fuel. This was one week yes I could have cut corners and stay on a hook or not eaten out but it is a life style that you get used to quick. I don't come close to having one of the more expensive boat on this forum and I sure I'm not alone in saying this is a expensive hobby both you and you wife need to know what you are getting into. I have seen this put a major strain on relationships that can end badly. Don't rush into something you will regret.
A boat is something both you and your wife need to be committed to, then and only then will you enjoy it together.

Best of luck and I'm sorry for my honesty.

[todd brinkerhoff]

Spending less at the beginning will only cost you more in the end. In my experience, most gas powered International Trojans will cost you $35-50K and diesel will be $65-95K. They are great boats for the money, and the equivalent in quality will cost you twice to three times that.

I will tell you from personal experience, that you and your wife must be on the same page, and you must be honest with her with the financial committment that comes with owning this kind of boat (yacht). They are a lifestyle and an ongoing financial committment. I think if you ask around, most of us spend probably $10,000 or more a year on this passion. So many people get into this type of boat and try to get out a few years later because they never considered the ongoing financial committment. It causes un-needed stress in the relationship.

Wet stringers are not good. Wet wood rots. A boat's structure must be dry. Your stringers are the boat's skeleton. Don't buy a soggy boat. You will pay for it later.

[rpdwyer]

All good advice from everyone. I appreciate it.

I am aware of the yearly costs involved... that will most certainly exceed the yearly cost in finance payments. I accept that. That has been figured into my cost of ownership.

What does bug me the most is the gph. Our intent (although it could change) is to take regular (every other weekend) trips out to Block Island... the four of us...my wife and two kids.

It's about 45 nautical miles for me. I want to get about 1 nm/gallon at cruise but I am getting the impression that is not going to happen in ANY gas boat weighing 15K lbs or more.

I don't know... perhaps for the next season, I go with a slightly smaller, newer boat that gets the mileage I am looking for until I ultimately settle can afford or find a diesel powered alternative.

--Rick

[Audrey II]

I'm sure there are gas boats that can do this, I don't know of any of the top. My diesel 44' 30k lbs get about .9 mpg not nmphg I'm thrilled with the performance. Of coarse Diesel once again changes the budget. I don't see that being necessary for a boat in the size range you are looking for it's nice but not needed. Save the money on the cost of the boat and use it toward fuel later. Unless you are planning to travel on long trips, short runs to Block Island would take a long time to break even based on fuel burn only.

[prowlersfish]

To get what you want You need to look in the under 30 foot range .but you still are limited by your price range .

Better to have a smaller boat you can use the a large one you can't

what size boats have you had before ?

[reelfishin]

Sounds like you have a game plan but I think the flags other people have posted need to be looked into. I also would want you to make sure the boat you buy is not underpowered. I have seen that to many times on boats.

[RWS]

Rick,

Here's your boat...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TROJAN-3 ... dZViewItem

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RWS

[tsawyer]

Cool, a 2011. I would have guessed in 2011 they would have gone with another color than the mauve of the 80s.

[prowlersfish]

Dam it must be a Carver