Trojan Boat Forum

okay, i have a 1982 tri cabin, HIN TRJVB0550282-1982-364. i am in desperate need of assistance from ANYONE OUT THERE. first, i need the 12v dc diagram for this boat and i will tell you why.

last week, i finished winterizing her, and before i left, i shut down all the dc breaker toggle switches that i do not normally use during the winter. i accidentally turned off the two 'cabin lights' breakers, not knowing this until i returned to the boat on Sunday evening to do some work. (winterized on Friday the 18th). when i went up to the forward stateroom to empty the forward bilge, i turned on the forward ceiling light. nothing happened. both of them were inop. for some reason, i went into the forward head to test the 12v light and it too is inop. i then began to investigate, and the small mini area light in the forward holding tank/water heater compartment is also inop. thinking that the breaker had blown, i returned to the panel and turned the breaker off then on again.

returning to the forward area, again, no 12v lights.
so i just began to investigate even more, and the cove salon lights work, the galley counter light works, the aft stateroom and engine compartment lights work. the nav/anc lights work as do the instrument panel lights. the only area, again, is the forward 4 12v lights. i've discovered that the 'cabin light' switches power the following. (looking at the panel, there are two, one above the other)
the top 'cabin light' breaker powers the following...


ENGINE COMPT LIGHT
GALLEY COUNTER LIGHT
AFT STATE ROOM CEILING LIGHT

(3 lights/fixtures total)

the second, or breaker below the first one powers these lights.


ALL AFT HEAD 12 V LIGHTS (1 in the tub and 2 on either side of the mirror)
BOTH P/S BUNK READING LIGHTS
ALL 6 WINDOW COVE LIGHTS
ALL FORWARD AREA LIGHTS (head, holding tank area, two bunk lights)
the reason why i know that the bottom breaker powers the forward area is because i used my volt meter to see if i was getting power by turning on and off the breaker.

(15 lights/fixtures total)

why would trojan not split them equally amongst the breakers? like 9/9?


it seems like the entire forward area is isolated from the rest of the boat. now, when i put my volt meter clip on a fixture and turn the breaker on and the fixture switch on, i get 13.75 volts. when i put a bulb in, the volt meter drops to zero.

i am totally baffled by this. all the wire bundles look good and i suspect that it is a grounding issue somewhere, but for the life of me i cannot figure out how or why. i don't think i knocked any thing loose in the bilge, and i have inspected all the wire connections down there and they all seem tight. HAS ANYONE run into anything like this before? i know it's not an emergency, but my god, how and why this is happening is really confusing and frustrating me to no end.

the ground, or all the bundles behind the dc breaker panel look solid and it appears that the previous owner has not messed with these as all connections look original and corrosion free.

any thoughts/suggestions? i would love to have input on this.

AAAAAHHHHHHHHH i'm frackin ready to toss in the towel on this one!!

tri cabin aaron, baltimore, md

If you have voltage, but the voltage won't light a bulb, you're not getting enough current. That means the batteries are good, but the power is being directed through a very small wire somewhere.

Have you got the MAIN 12vDC switches off? If so, there may be a small wire somewhere (bilge pump wired direct, but also connected to the circuits?) letting some voltage through, but it won't carry enough current to light a bulb.

Are your battery connections loose? They may need to be lossened, moved a bit and tightened (and re-vaselined), after the jostling form your haul-out.

You have Voltage but no amps , most likely corrosion some where , could even be in the breaker . A DVOM can mislead you as it puts no load on the circuit . You can still use it but make sure you put a load on the circuit ( turn the lights on ) I would start at the beaker or fuses .

I have the DC & AC diagrams for my '79 in PDF format if you want them.

rossjo wrote:If you voltage, but the voltage won't light a bulb, you're not getting enough current. That means the batteries are good, but the power is being directed through a very small wire somewhere.

Have you got the MAIN 12vDC switches off? If so, there may be a small wire somewhere (bilge pump wired direct, but also connected to the circuits?) letting some voltage through, but it won't carry enough current to light a bulb.

Are your battery connections loose? They may need to be lossened, moved a bit and tightened (and re-vaselined), after the jostling form your haul-out.

hmmm, i did indeed check the battery connex and all are nice and tight and corrosion free. funny you should mention the small amt of voltage. the only fixture that i messed with, is the 'on-demand' holding tank area light. rather than pullout the mini bayonet bulb, i pulled off the female blade connector. (the fixture has one wire soldered to the top blade <black wire>, and the <white wire> has the 'female' connector blade that slips onto the male blade). when i removed the female blade, there was a small spark. same for when i reconnected it. could this have sent a surge to the breaker switch? i did use a new breaker switch as a test, and i did get power to everything but the forward part of the boat. and yes, i did have the dc mains on. in fact, i powered them off then on again in hopes that all that needed to be accomplished was a reset. still, all 4 of the forward fixtures do not work.

hope this additional info is helpful.
aaron in baltimore.

k9th wrote:I have the DC & AC diagrams for my '79 in PDF format if you want them.

thanks tim, i have the ones you sent me in the spring, but the DC & AC panels are totally different. appreciate it though. and i had used it as a guide, to better understand, but the diagram does not match up.

aaron

Aaron -

I will send you my 1980 diagram to see if that helps.

John

rcamaine wrote:Aaron -

I will send you my 1980 diagram to see if that helps.

John

thanks john, my email is tovyah@aol.com

aaronbocknek wrote:

rossjo wrote:If you have voltage, but the voltage won't light a bulb, you're not getting enough current. That means the batteries are good, but the power is being directed through a very small wire somewhere.

Have you got the MAIN 12vDC switches off? If so, there may be a small wire somewhere (bilge pump wired direct, but also connected to the circuits?) letting some voltage through, but it won't carry enough current to light a bulb.

Are your battery connections loose? They may need to be loossened, moved a bit and tightened (and re-vaselined), after the jostling form your haul-out.

hmmm, i did indeed check the battery connex and all are nice and tight and corrosion free. funny you should mention the small amt of voltage. the only fixture that i messed with, is the 'on-demand' holding tank area light. rather than pullout the mini bayonet bulb, i pulled off the female blade connector. (the fixture has one wire soldered to the top blade <black wire>, and the <white wire> has the 'female' connector blade that slips onto the male blade). when i removed the female blade, there was a small spark. same for when i reconnected it. could this have sent a surge to the breaker switch? i did use a new breaker switch as a test, and i did get power to everything but the forward part of the boat. and yes, i did have the dc mains on. in fact, i powered them off then on again in hopes that all that needed to be accomplished was a reset. still, all 4 of the forward fixtures do not work.

hope this additional info is helpful.
aaron in baltimore.

Aaron - but I didn't mention the small amount of voltage ...

a) You say you're reading 13.75VDC (which is not possible from a standrad battery unless its connected to a charger.

b) I mentioned the low CURRENT which is the problem. Your 13.75FVD will show on your DVM, but apparently this is not enough CURRENT (Amps) to light a small bulb.

You have:
1) have a charger in-line to get 13.75VCDC and
2) some small wiring or a bad connection limiting current to your lighting circuit breakers.


Your light are probably 20-30 Watts. DCV * Amps = Watts, so you're not able to pull 1-2Amps(20-30 / 12) through your circuit, which indicates a great amount of resistance, which is s bad connection or small wire.

Are you main DC battery connections off?
Did a main battery Positive Main wire get damaged (or was it bad and finally showed up after haul-out)?

Just be glad it happened on the hill, and not 40 miles offshore.

oh yeah - if it ain't broke, its breaking.

The previous posts make a lot of sense.

A digital Volt meter does not draw any current but will read voltage in an open circuit which is really what you have. If you want to get creative you can use your meter in the Current mode and remove one wire form the breaker with bulbs in place and see if you draw any current at all. ( connect one wire from meter to the disconnected lead and the other to the point where you disconnected it from)

My guess is that you will find a loose connection. I would start with any of the push on Spade lugs that you might have disturbed while winterizing or any solder joints that are not shiny. (Cold solder joint) Most likely the lights are daisy chained from the lamp closest to the breaker. Don't overlook the ground side. (return) to light a lamp you need a complete circuit. I had a similar problem with the all white running lamp mounted to my windshield and it turned out to be a corroded ground connection.

Good luck. With perseverance you will win and be proud of the results.

Barry

Well, did you find the problem?

rossjo wrote:Well, did you find the problem?

no, not yet. then again, i've been flying some really nasty trips that have taken me away from boat, home and dog (much to his dismay) for 4 days at a time. little down time to just trouble shoot this. the next few weeks promise to be equally busy for us flight crews. i did have a chance to meetup w/ my mechanic john stump of bluewater marine, and he too speculates with everyone that it is a ground issue. we just need to isolate which ground wires are attached to that specific grouping of lights. he also assures me that this happens all the time, not just with boats, but with rv's and even cars. it just takes a little time to do the snooping around. i know it is not pivotal, but guys, it is just bugging the hell out of me that i cannot solve this bugger of a problem.
thanks for everyones input and support.

oh, something i wanted to share with you all. i've been upgraded at work. i am now an ''in flight director'' (a.k.a purser or f/a in charge for my canadian friends). that means i will be working in first class 90% of the time on domestic, latin america and caribbean trips. i'm also a devoted hebrew speaker for our tel aviv (tlv) trips. a few more dollars, but the work is quadruple of what it's like working in 'economy' class. i'm up for the challenge though.
tri cabin aaron

aaronbocknek wrote:oh, something i wanted to share with you all. i've been upgraded at work. i am now an ''in flight director'' (a.k.a purser or f/a in charge for my canadian friends). that means i will be working in first class 90% of the time on domestic, latin america and caribbean trips. i'm also a devoted hebrew speaker for our tel aviv (tlv) trips. a few more dollars, but the work is quadruple of what it's like working in 'economy' class. i'm up for the challenge though.
tri cabin aaron

Mazel Tov.

Whats with "In Flight Director"? Is the term Purser no longer cool to use anymore? What do they call Chief Purser now? Do you get another stripe? Cash is always good, but extra stripes let folks know whos runnin' $hit.

Well it sounds like congratulations are in order!

Congratulations! more money? Does this mean pulling the boat and fixing the props so you burn some fuel next summer? What do you think Allen no more excuses for him now.