Trojan Boat Forum

I wiped a cam lobe on my starboard side Gen.5 454 RH motor and have a chance to upgrade to a Gen.6 motor with a roller cam/rockers. I can't afford to rebuild both of them right now, but not sure I want to stay with the flat tappet camshaft setup and have the same problem down the road. I have heard that this is very common on these motors. When the port engine goes, I'll upgrade to the Gen.6 on that side. Is it not a good idea to run two different types of motors? Looking for some advice and/or solutions if anyone can help. I guess I should add that the boat originally came with Gen.4 motors and were replaced by another owner.

Thanks,
Mike

I am sure a some will post other wise but it won't hurt a thing .

But why not replace the can and lifters ?

As far the cam failing what oil are you using ? I would recc a 15w40 oil rate for gas/diesel these oils seem to have more zinc in them . You also may consider using a zinc additive .

are both carbed ? will the new one need a ecm if not carbed ? will the h.p. be the same ? these are the things I'd think of ..

It just makes sense to do a complete rebuild with all of those metal shavings getting into the rod and crank bearings and everywhere else, don't you guys think? The labor is too much to go half-way and then have a rod knock next season. That's just my thought. I wish I could trailer it to my house and do the work myself but I'm at the mercy of others when it comes to the labor. I already have a new cooler and lines to eliminate any issues there as they were original, as well as the raw water pump, engine circ. pump and manifolds/risers. I'm already in deep but just thought of this as another option for the same money and might get more life in the long run. I'm no expert, but do know there are many of you out there. Many, many thanks to all of you.
Have a safe and Happy New Year!

Thanks,
Mike

Unchained wrote:It just makes sense to do a complete rebuild with all of those metal shavings getting into the rod and crank bearings and everywhere else, don't you guys think? The labor is too much to go half-way and then have a rod knock next season. That's just my thought. I wish I could trailer it to my house and do the work myself but I'm at the mercy of others when it comes to the labor. I already have a new cooler and lines to eliminate any issues there as they were original, as well as the raw water pump, engine circ. pump and manifolds/risers. I'm already in deep but just thought of this as another option for the same money and might get more life in the long run. I'm no expert, but do know there are many of you out there. Many, many thanks to all of you.
Have a safe and Happy New Year!

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

Hardness of the cam shift is .005 deep, after that, cam wears fast, the filter catches the cam dust particles. Myself, would be a cam replace in the boat, other then pulling the harmonic balancer, to pull the timing chain cover, and the intake to pull the lifters, no big deal. Question ? are you going to do any of the work ?

Mitch

I have replace many cam shafts and never had a issue with the lower end ( rods and mains )

I'm not doing the work myself. I'm very good when it comes to replacing external parts but internal engine work I have never done. I've replaced rear ends, transmissions and such on cars, but I'm pretty much stuck with having my marina do the labor seeing that the cost to trailer the boat anywhere is very expensive. I was actually thinking of doing the cam replacement in the boat myself, but there is maybe one foot in front of the engine to the wall. This is a mid-cabin model and the engine is already pulled and sitting in their shop. I met someone who had this Gen.6 I'm talking about rebuilt a few months ago and fell on hard times and will probably sell it to me for $2,500. I'm not sure if I can pass it up but don't want to throw money away if it's going to lead to more problems. You're prices are very good by the way. Thanks

Unchained wrote:I'm not doing the work myself. I'm very good when it comes to replacing external parts but internal engine work I have never done. I've replaced rear ends, transmissions and such on cars, but I'm pretty much stuck with having my marina do the labor seeing that the cost to trailer the boat anywhere is very expensive. I was actually thinking of doing the cam replacement in the boat myself, but there is maybe one foot in front of the engine to the wall. This is a mid-cabin model and the engine is already pulled and sitting in their shop. I met someone who had this Gen.6 I'm talking about rebuilt a few months ago and fell on hard times and will probably sell it to me for $2,500. I'm not sure if I can pass it up but don't want to throw money away if it's going to lead to more problems. You're prices are very good by the way. Thanks

Mike,

I understand, a year ago, picked up a 1979 Trojan F44, with rebuilt 440 Chrysler engines, The owner gave me the bill, $10,500, to pull and rebulit the engines, that was 2007.
MIKE, Slow down, BBC are many. What Lake are you on ?
As you know, a lot of guys pull engines now, to up grade, for next boating seasons. St. Louis Missouri is a good location to look.

Mitch

I know its to late but as far as replacing the cam in the boat , Even with the bulkhead (wall ) 1 foot in front . just cut or use a hole saw on the bulkhead and patch when you get done . much much easier then pulling the engine .

I still need to plant one of those money trees...I'm kinda stuck now but like your suggestions guys. Thanks.

Unchained wrote:I still need to plant one of those money trees...I'm kinda stuck now but like your suggestions guys. Thanks.

http://www.usmarineengine.com/marine-45 ... 01-04.html

Mitch

Mike,

Can you give us more details on what happened? Like # hours, previous maintenance and what the symptoms were?

I believe my boat has a pretty good oil change history judging from the way it looks inside and the way it runs, but I doubt high zinc oil was on anyones mind. I used an additive last year but at 1,000 hours who I have no idea how close/far away the cams are from having an issue.

thanks

Bob

BobCT wrote:Mike,

Can you give us more details on what happened? Like # hours, previous maintenance and what the symptoms were?

I believe my boat has a pretty good oil change history judging from the way it looks inside and the way it runs, but I doubt high zinc oil was on anyones mind. I used an additive last year but at 1,000 hours who I have no idea how close/far away the cams are from having an issue.

thanks

Bob

It's true, 80 to 90 percent of engine life is consumed by cold and dry start ups. Engines usually shut down hot, at which point the oil is thin and drips away from the bearing and other "friction intense" areas. Gradually the oil cools, thickens and becomes difficult to pump. When starting an engine, the lubrication process involves filling all oil galleys, filling the filter, pressurizing the rod, main and cam bearing as well as the entire valve train (filling the lifters and lubricating the cam lobe and rocker arms). Unfortunately, the engine is running while this lubricating process and is meshing metal against metal, hence massive engine wear takes place.

Mitch

I keep hearing that But I don't believe it . Why ? Because I have torn down many engines that have sat for a long time (even years ) and they still have a oil film on the bearing '

Notice that when you here "80 to 90 percent of engine life is consumed by cold and dry start ups" Its from from some oil additive maker ? snake old sellers like slick 50 .

As far as additives go I used Lucas oil stabilizer in my '97 IHC which had a N14 Cummins in it. At 890,000 miles Cummins went to replace rod&mains in it and when they dropped the mains and checked the rods there was no reason to replace them, there was absolutely no wear to the bearings. I run the truck another 100,000 before I sold it. So some additives are very good, not many but some are. Also what could be seen of the cylinders was in perfect condition. If I had to do it again I would follow the same procedure. I know its not marine related but that engine had a hard life.