Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

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yorklyn
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Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by yorklyn »

Hello everyone,
My engines should be going to the machine shop next week for a complete rebuild. I'm going to send the trannys out and have them gone over, new seals etc. I bought a sandblast cabinet and plant on blasting all the brackets, mounts , pulleys etc and repainting. My question is what is worth reusing and what should be replaced? I had replaced the manifolds risers and elbows and used them for one season before i tore the boat apart so they should be good for now. Everything worked and the boat ran good when I pulled it 4 years ago. What about stuff like fuel pumps, water pump (not the raw water pumps, i will rebuild them with new impellers etc) alternators and starters? I'm replacing all of the engine mounts as they were pretty bad. How about the carbs? Rebuild the old quadrajets or replace with new ones? how about heat exchangers ? I had them cooked out when I originally bought the boat and never had an overheating problem so im hoping to reuse them as they are expensive!!!! How about the oil coolers? can they be pressure tested to determine condition and reused? Does anyone know much about the lines to the tranny from the oil coolers as well as the actual oil lines? Mine are shot and need to be replaced. I cant find them online. I have a local shop nearby that make custom hydraulic lines and high pressure hoses. I'm wondering if its something I can just have made?
I am trying to do a good job without spending unnessary money.
Any and all suggestions or insight would really be appreciated!!!
Todd


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Todd Pote
1987 10 Meter Mid Cabin
Double Pote-N_Sea
1992 Scout 15.5 Center Console
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alexander38
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by alexander38 »

Risers and manifolds keep
exchangers clean and test
oil and trans coolers replace if age unknown
water circ pump replace
alt. and starter test and keep
carbs overhaul or change to edelbrock
gas pump replace
and buy some Black spray paint..... :wink:
Carver 3607 ACMY 454's Merc's
10' Dinghy 6hp Merc.
La Dolce Vita
Let's hit the water !

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prowlersfish
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by prowlersfish »

Inspect test and replace /repair ass necessary . Without seeing the parts in front of me it would be impossible to say for sure what would need to be done .

and Keep them blue .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
Unchained
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by Unchained »

I agree with the last post, although I would have to go with a Holley carb. We all have our preferences :-). If you had no issues with yours, just rebuild them. The kit costs $30 and it will take an hour, no problem. They will work just fine and new carbs aren't cheap. See what is really old or original and just replace it; it's not worth the aggravation later on. Sensors, wire harness, slave solenoid, breaker....things like that. These are not big ticket items and may save you some heartache or be a blessing when troubleshooting a problem down the road. You can always save some old/ok parts for a backup if you break down too. The cooler will run about $210 and all of the lines about $300?? The lines are pretty much all in stock, they have just changed numbers over the years like everything else. Make sure you really need them all as they are high quality and very durable. If you Ever had an engine issue with bearing or lifter failure or something like that, by all means replace everything circulating that oil. I'm sure I'll think of other things.
Take care,
Mike
1987 10 Meter Mid-Cabin
Twin Crusader FWC 454's
Unchained
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by Unchained »

Yes.... Keep it blue! It's a lot easier to see things...leaks, etc. when you have that color. That was Crusader's intention from the beginning and a good one.
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yorklyn
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by yorklyn »

Thanks for the help everyone! Although I'm somewhat mechanicaly inclined this is somewhat out of my comfort zone so I appreciate the help. I wasnt sure about the oil coolers and i have no idea of their age. i think they are around $250 a piece but it seems like it would make sense to start new with fresh rebuilds. so replace the water circ pump which from ive read cant be rebuilt. Im not sure what to do with the carbs? Bobct gave me a book on rebuilding them but its something ive never done (but then again ive never completly tore a boat apart and rebuilt it so theres a first for everything!!) how hard is it? I never had a problem with them before but i do want to make sure they can handle all the ethanol fuel. I only had one season with ethanol before my boat rebuild escapade started. where or how do you test the alt and starters? they worked before, do they diminish in output which could be a sign to replace or simply fail? I am familiar with the "failing" and have always just replaced them but it sounds like they can also be refurbished?
any suggestions on where to find the oil/tranny hoses? I would rather purchase correct ones than try to have them made.
How about parts in general? I need all new engine mounts, oil lines, oil coolers, maybe carbs or at least rebuild kits. how about bolts to re-attach tranny, engine mounts etc? thet were all pretty shot. do you go with "crusader" parts or just quality bolts?

I'm sorry for all the questions but im trying to keep moving forward and all these questions keep popping in my head!

Thanks again
Todd
Todd Pote
1987 10 Meter Mid Cabin
Double Pote-N_Sea
1992 Scout 15.5 Center Console
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alexander38
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by alexander38 »

http://www.greatwhitemarine.net/parts/C ... -Parts.pdf

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/sierr ... QgodwAkAoA

Here's place's to start with to look for parts, you we need the serial number off your engines to make sure you get the right stuff.

take the alt and starter to a auto part store they can test them, Setting will screw them (sometimes)

as far as buying bolt on parts there's good after market stuff, Just cause it's Blue or Black doesn't mean it's topself...
Carver 3607 ACMY 454's Merc's
10' Dinghy 6hp Merc.
La Dolce Vita
Let's hit the water !

http://s852.beta.photobucket.com/user/t ... 8/library/
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prowlersfish
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by prowlersfish »

I believe Bob at Beacon Marine can get you crusader parts also . I know he gave Allen a great deal on a oil cooler ,
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
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RWS
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by RWS »

ditto on the fuel pumps.

I had an ignition coil fail on mine once and limped back on one engine.

Carry a spare or replace them both and carry one of the old ones as a spare.

If it's not yet done, upgrade the ignition system as well.

The bad thing abnout doing this rebuild is the total cost of doing it RIGHT actually approaches what the 8.1 New complete Crusader engine cost is. (or I should say, WAS, as it is no longer in production)

Before you go too far call BOBCT and see if he will sell you his perfect 454's as after this weekend, he's feeling the need for the Yanmar Diesels.

Poor guy, I think he's going through withdrawl.

We couldn't pry him from the helm.

RWS
1983 10 Meter SOLD after 21 years of adventures
Yanmar diesels
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prowlersfish
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by prowlersfish »

RWS wrote:ditto on the fuel pumps.

I had an ignition coil fail on mine once and limped back on one engine.

Carry a spare or replace them both and carry one of the old ones as a spare.

If it's not yet done, upgrade the ignition system as well.

The bad thing abnout doing this rebuild is the total cost of doing it RIGHT actually approaches what the 8.1 New complete Crusader engine cost is. (or I should say, WAS, as it is no longer in production)

Before you go too far call BOBCT and see if he will sell you his perfect 454's as after this weekend, he's feeling the need for the Yanmar Diesels.

Poor guy, I think he's going through withdrawl.

We couldn't pry him from the helm.

RWS
There is something about diesels that you can't expain until you owned one , or maybe just had your hands on one .
Last edited by prowlersfish on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
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yorklyn
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by yorklyn »

RWS, I cant stop laughing right now! Sorry Bob but I can just picture you drooling over those Yanmars!
I upgraded the dist. but have read alot of info that suggests replacing the entire assembly because it is considered a wear part. are replacement mechanical fuel pumps ok or block off plate and electric pump.
Boy if I keep going like this I'll be able to justify the $58,000 quote that I got for repowering with yanmars! LOL
Todd
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1987 10 Meter Mid Cabin
Double Pote-N_Sea
1992 Scout 15.5 Center Console
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prowlersfish
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by prowlersfish »

yorklyn wrote:RWS, I cant stop laughing right now! Sorry Bob but I can just picture you drooling over those Yanmars!
I upgraded the dist. but have read alot of info that suggests replacing the entire assembly because it is considered a wear part. are replacement mechanical fuel pumps ok or block off plate and electric pump.
Boy if I keep going like this I'll be able to justify the $58,000 quote that I got for repowering with yanmars! LOL
Todd
58k is cheap what HP and Model ?
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
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yorklyn
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by yorklyn »

Ill look for the the quote. I think they were 315hp 6cyl . it was 58k for engines and controls . no installation. I would have to upgrade shafts struts props .
Todd Pote
1987 10 Meter Mid Cabin
Double Pote-N_Sea
1992 Scout 15.5 Center Console
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prowlersfish
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by prowlersfish »

yorklyn wrote:Ill look for the the quote. I think they were 315hp 6cyl . it was 58k for engines and controls . no installation. I would have to upgrade shafts struts props .

Depending on what have and what gearing you go to ,you maybe fine with the shafts .
Boating is good for the soul
77/78 TROJAN F36 Conv.
6BTA Cummins diesels
Life is to short for a ugly boat :D
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Re: Engine rebuild, what to save and what to replace?

Post by Unchained »

Hi Todd,
Here are some part numbers and approx costs.
Crusader Model 350, serial numbers up to 88710

Engine oil related:
#22167 Replaced by #22624, Hose Assembly, #10 X 44 1/2" Block to Cooler $50.00
#22169 Replaced by #22627, Hose Assembly, #10 x 14" Filter to Block $30.00
#22168 Replaced by #22672, Hose Assembly, #10 x 61" Cooler to Filter $70.00
#20156 Gasket for remote oil fitting adapter to block $3.00
#22226 (2) 5/16" flat copper washers. Used with bolts that attach the adapter to the block. Replaced by nylon washers.

Trans oil related: these are ones I see listed. Need to check what you have.
#22416 Replaced by #22619, Hose Assembly; # 8 x 44" Long, Standard (not V-drive) $65.00
#22415 Two required. Replaced by #22619, Hose Assembly; #8 x 44" Long. $65.00 each
#22420 Replaced by #22672, Hose Assembly; #10 x 61" Long. $70.00

Engine mounts, (2) #97926, single type, 1" dia. $35.00 each
Trans mounts, (2) #97905, dual eye type, 1" dia. $85.00 each
Mount adjusting socket, #22165. This comes in real handy for $40.00.

Cooler, #97878. $235.00

This place has good prices.
http://www.perfprotech.com

My email is mike@ccpower.com if you need any additional info.

Take care,
Mike
1987 10 Meter Mid-Cabin
Twin Crusader FWC 454's
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