Trojan Boat Forum

Okay, so after successfully cleaning and replacing a clogged anti-siphon valve (in which I lost not a single drop of gasoline, I'm happy to say) and at some point not long after starting the engine to test the repair (again, successful) I noticed that my stereo went out, my toilet pump went out, and my trim tabs started acting funny (they appear to be connected to the emergency starter/battery charger, seemed to actuate to the point of bottoming out on either end, then they quit).

I checked all breakers and easily locatable fuses, but found nothing out of the ordinary. What I will say is that last week I thought I noticed the "reverse polarity" light ON on my breaker panel. I also noticed that in the engine compartment under the salon, on the aft bulkhead on the starboard side, there is a vented gray box with lots of wires going into it. It has always hummed, but sounded as though it was humming a bit louder.

With my very limited electrical knowledge, I can only assume that the three electrical components that went out are on the same circuit, but it also seems that a breaker would have thrown. Again, I noticed nothing out of the ordinary.

Any suggestions to forward to my mechanic? 'Cause it AIN'T me........

P.S. Since this is still my shakedown year owning the boat, after running it fine for about a half hour under load, that anti-siphon valve clogged again. It was suggested to me that I take it off, temporarily replace it with a straight pass-through fitting, and let the fuel filter take care of the gunk that is (and likely will continue) clogging the anti-siphon valve until I get the tank emptied out and can refill with all fresh gas. Any thoughts on this suggestion?

First and foremost do NOT remove the anti-siphon valve. It is there for one very good reason. If the fuel delivery system is compromized that valve prevents the gas from syphoning into the bilge. You already have one problem, don't create another. Especially when the first problem is electrical.

My first guess to your electrical issue is you have disturbed something while working on that valve. Retrace your steps. Maybe you moved a harness, or leaned on a connector. I suspect you have created a loose connection, or maybe lost a ground somewhere.

As far as that humming grey box, can't help. The only "grey box" I have in my boat is the parallelling solenoid, and it does not have the ablity to hum. Somethings electrical hum, some not. I'll have to leave that others who maybe familiar with your set up.

I didn't really like the idea of removing the AS valve either, but neither do I relish having to remove it, clean it, and replace it with the 75 gallons of mostly old gas and the associated junk in the tank that has materialized over the years (and two years on the hard up till last Labor Day). I'll probably give it another shot and see what happens after that.

I had another buddy suggest that it very well could be a ground ("90% of electrical problems are ground-related", or something close to that percentage). As far as loosening a connection, I think I did a pretty good job of avoiding everything. The valve was very accessible from salon floor-level once I had the far port floor panel unscrewed, and I didn't really need to step on anything. In fact, next time I clean the valve, I won't even pull the access hatch, I'll just remove the small floor panel.

Your reply is much appreciated. Thank you.

I agree it sounds like a ground issue . Can you post a photo of the humming box ? I don't think this is your problem but when I lost power to my trim tabs I found the circuit breaker inside the" Black box" that contains the" Emergency start" relay .

Humming grey box? Battery charger?

prowlersfish wrote:I agree it sounds like a ground issue . Can you post a photo of the humming box ? I don't think this is your problem but when I lost power to my trim tabs I found the circuit breaker inside the" Black box" that contains the" Emergency start" relay .

The photo will have to wait until the weekend, Paul. It sounds, though, like you know exactly what I'm talking about with the "black box". It's labeled as "Emergency Start/Battery Charger" and on what I think off the top of my head is the positive cable side, there is a small label that says "Trim Tabs".

Would that circuit also affect the stereo and toilet pump? I'm hoping so.

TC wrote:First and foremost do NOT remove the anti-siphon valve. It is there for one very good reason. If the fuel delivery system is compromized that valve prevents the gas from syphoning into the bilge.

Hart,

First let me say that I agree with TC that "It is there for one very good reason". If your fuel system develops a leak below the fuel level in the tank, it will syphon fuel into the bilge. Safety First right? That being said, what I'm about to say next i'm sure will be followed by mixed reviews. Being adrift in heavy seas, unable to get any RPM our of an engine due to a clogged anti-syphon valve is not a safe situation either. I found myself in this situation on a couple of occasions before I removed the anti-syphon valve. Yes the engine stumbling problem went away and yes the filter caught the debris in the bottom of the tank however this was only a band aid fix. I still needed to find the root cause for the debris in the tank. In my case, I ran a couple of seasons like that (without going dead in the water) then ultimately ended up replacing the entire fuel system from tank to pump.

If you should choose this path, keep in mind that filtering the bottom of the tank clean may not be the only problem. Debris in the tank may be from the inside of the tank itself corroding or possibly the inside of the filler tube. In my case, it was insects getting in thru the vent that had no screen. Also keep in mind that without an anti-syphon valve its that much more important to do frequent fuel system inspections.

Hope this helps,

No, I'm in full agreement with you both of you. I work in an intensively safety-conscious environment (chemical manufacturing plant) and have brought that culture to my personal life (using gloves, protective eye wear, hearing protection, etc). We were saying the exact same thing on the dock last weekend: that valve is there for a reason and performs a very, very important function. The question remaining in my mind is, does this necessarily negate the idea of removing the valve only long enough to run the tank out and hopefully remove as much residue as possible, hopefully getting the tank part of the system functioning properly?

I also agree with the scenario you described. Getting stuck in a short, 4-foot chop on Lake Michigan is hardly my idea of a "fun day on the water".

I don't relish the idea of having the tank drained and flushed. Does this sound like something I need to lend more consideration to? Thus far, I have been able to keep the engine running, just not under a heavy load. Additionally, this problem only appears (currently) on my forward port tank, which happens to be the larger, 125 gallon one. I'm currently keeping both aft, 50-gallon tanks about 3/4 full and running primarily off my mains, but I haven't done a lot of running lately (I just had my hydraulic steering system re-filled and bled).

I guess my hope, such as it is, is that the stuff coming out that is clogging the valve is simply a byproduct of 2 years on the hard prior to my purchase, old gas, a bunch of Startron, and a little bit of mixing from the trip over and the very small amount of running so far this year.

I also agree that you should not remove the anti siphon valve. But if you do, I think that you should first replace any fuel hose that might possibly be suspect and keep the fuel manifold valves shut off at all times that the boat is not running. And inspect the engine room and bilge after every shutdown and after you shut off the fuel manifold valves. It will be a little more work, but the thought of a broken or leaking fuel line would be way worse.

Hart wrote:

prowlersfish wrote:I agree it sounds like a ground issue . Can you post a photo of the humming box ? I don't think this is your problem but when I lost power to my trim tabs I found the circuit breaker inside the" Black box" that contains the" Emergency start" relay .

The photo will have to wait until the weekend, Paul. It sounds, though, like you know exactly what I'm talking about with the "black box". It's labeled as "Emergency Start/Battery Charger" and on what I think off the top of my head is the positive cable side, there is a small label that says "Trim Tabs".

Would that circuit also affect the stereo and toilet pump? I'm hoping so.

I had some other stuff stop working at the same time , But I don't remeber what else . Looks like a good place to start .

prowlersfish wrote:

Hart wrote:

prowlersfish wrote:
I had some other stuff stop working at the same time , But I don't remeber what else . Looks like a good place to start .

That's encouraging. Thanks, Paul.

Dave: Sound advice I may end up using. Thanks.

One other thing to think about... If you have a problem after you remove the anti siphon valve, will your insurance company stand behind you? I am not an insurance expert, but it is something to think about.

To answer your question directly, I would say that no, they probably wouldn't - though the ultimate proof of the existence/absence of that valve could go several ways.

That said, I am ONLY contemplating taking the valve off long enough to burn off the 75 gallons of gas in the tank - a matter of a few hours. After that, it would be immediately replaced (along with fuel filters, etc). This is NOT something I'm proposing to do for any extended period of time.

I want to make sure that point is abundantly clear.

To answer your question directly, I would say that no, they probably wouldn't - though the ultimate proof of the existence/absence of that valve could go several ways.

That said, I am ONLY contemplating taking the valve off long enough to burn off the 75 gallons of gas in the tank - a matter of a few hours. After that, it would be immediately replaced (along with fuel filters, etc). This is NOT something I'm proposing to do for any extended period of time.

I want to make sure that point is abundantly clear.

Okay, the vented gray box that is humming is actually a Professional Mariner 2 Bank Power Supply/Multi Charger (15 amp.12V D.C.). I thought it was humming louder, but maybe not.

The black box the trim tabs are connected to is in fact that emergency starter. On one side of it there is a red re-set button. I hit that this weekend and lo and behold, I got my toilet pump and stereo back on. Apparently they're connected into that circuit somewhere. However, after actuating the trim tabs ("boat levelers"), once they bottom out one way or the other, they trip that circuit.

I'm thinking I've got an issue with the trim motor.