1991 12 Meter International Express update

Bob Korts · Post by **Bob Korts** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:27 pm

We have a 1991 12 meter express and want to do some updates. We went to the Atlanta show a couple weeks ago for ideas and came back with some. I just pulled the carpet out of the cabin and am planning to put down a 1/4 thick teak and holly floor. My wife wants to replace the counter top but I would like to hear from someone who has removed one and how they did it. It appears to have been set in 5200 on a ledge along the hull. Getting it out in one piece would be a big help in making a new one. I have a feeling the water tank was replaced at some time. I found the wires for the water level sensor but no sensor. The only name I found on the indicator mounted next to the micro wave was Jensen but when I googled that name nothing came up except someone named Jensen held some patents on level indicators. Any information would be helpful. We love the boat and plan some extensive cruising on the TN river this summer

Bob

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:30 am

I'm a counter top candidate also but on a 10 meter.

I wish I could help you with the other issues.

Keep us in the loop and please share your project progress here in the forum.

RWS

Dan Faith · Post by **Dan Faith** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:49 am

I have just comleted both the teak and holly flooring and new counter and table tops. Here is a link to the pictures.

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg303/DANFAITH/

I used the new high definition Willson Art laminate. Teak and holly is 1/2"
on New stringers and gussets. If I can answer any questions let me know.

Dan

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:48 am

Hi Dan,

Nice work.

Thanks for sharing the pix. That floor looks great and really enhances the boat.

Here's some on mine

http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/rws1983/

Did you attach the new laminate directly over the old after sanding?

What kind of adhesive as used?

Any special issues going over the top of the old laminate?

Which router blade did you use for the edges and was there an issue with the old "edge" being under the new?

If I use laminate, I plan on leaving the counter top, splashes and other previously laminated items installed. I will make perfect templates (out of something I do not yet know) for each piece of laminte.

I suppose I will have to use a moto tool or similar device to trim out those areas I cannot acccess with the router.

What was your cost seperately for the materials..... floor vs laminate?

How much timedid the job require and what reccomendations would you offer?

Thanks,

RWS

Dan Faith · Post by **Dan Faith** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:30 pm

TO GO OVER STEPS, I REMOVED THE OLD LAMINATE (YOU CAN GO OVER THE OLD BUT NEED TO SAND SO ADHESIVE WILL HOLD).

YOU PURCHASE THE ADHESIVE WHERE YOU PURCHASE THE LAMINATE I.E. HOME DEPOT (IT IS CONTACT ADHESIVE AND YOU LET DRY THE PLACE DOWELS UNDER THE LAMINTE ONE YOU PULL OUT A DOWEL AND THEY COME IN CONTACT YOU CAN'T MOVE OR RELOCATE)

YOU DO NOT TRY TO CUT TO SIZE WITH A PATERN LEAVE HANG OVER AND USE A LAMINATE TRIMMER (GOES IN A ROUTER WITH A WHEEL THAT TRIMS PERFECT) USE A FINE FILE TO FINISH THE EDGE.

THE HD LAMINATE IS MORE EXPENSIVE THE REGULAR MY COST WITH ADHESIVE WAS AROUND $175.00

THE TEAK AND HOLLY I USED 1/2" SCREWED TO FRAME ( NO WHERE EXCEED 10" BETWEEN SUPPORTS) COST WAS $213.00 A SHEET AND I USED TWO SHEETS.

LSP · Post by **LSP** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:28 pm

Nice job Dan .... what do you have for a floor in the salon?

Dan Faith · Post by **Dan Faith** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:36 am

LSP,
I HAVE CARPET IN THE SALON, REASON I DIDN'T PUT IN TEAK AND HOLLEY IS ENGINE NOISE. I HAVE SOUND DEADENING UNDER THE FLOOR AND CARPET OVER. MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE IN RIDING WITH THE ENGINES RUNNING. I DID WORRY ABOUT NOT HEARING AN ENGINE PROBLEM UNDERWAY BUT WHEN I CHECK THE OIL BEFORE STARTING I LEAVE THE CENTER HATCH OPEN RUN THE ENGINE AND LISTEN FOR ANYTHING UNUSUAL THEN REPLACE THE COVER.

LSP · Post by **LSP** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:35 am

Thanks again ...I'm curious just how much the carpet quiets down the motors verses the teak and holly. I'm sure it's a major difference. Your flooring upgrade just looks so good ... I'd like it throughout

wowzer52 · Post by **wowzer52** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:16 am

When I bought my F-32 It had been used as a charter fishing boat and the teak and holly floors were in such bad shape I couldn't save the salon floor so I carpeted over the teak and holly in the salon but was able to restore the galley teak and holly. After installing 1 1/2" engine room insulation on the hatches and carpet on the salon floor I can now carry a normal conversation at 3000 rpm in the salon, when before, with no carpet or engine room insulation, my wife and I had to yell to be heard.

Bob Korts · Post by **Bob Korts** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:19 pm

RWS, I don't know anything about the counter in your 11 meter but I can tell you the counter is 11 ft. long in the 12 meter. I have discovered the 3/4 in plywood subbase was put in in two pieces but once the fit was established the laminate was cut to exact size to be installed after the subase was fully installed. That means glued and screw in place. I have 6 hours invested so far and I hope to have it out in another 6 hours. Once I have it out in two pieces I will have an exact pattern for the new counter. I am looking at granite or one of the solid surface products. I still don't know what I am going to use on the cabin floor. Noise is not an issue since the engin compartment is fully seperated from the salon. My big problem is that the cabin interior walls are flashed to the 3/4 in cabin subfloor with glass cloth. This can be up to 1/4 in thick and if I use an 1/8 floor material I will have to feather the edges. I also have four hatches I need to have access too. Will keep you posted.

Bob

Stripermann2 · Post by **Stripermann2** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:30 pm

Wowzer, what sound insulation did you use and where to purchase? Mine is like styrofoam and is all broken up. Would like to quiet down, especially when genny is running.

Thanks.

Bob Korts · Post by **Bob Korts** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:15 pm

Insulation is 1.5 or 2 in foam covered with Alum. Underside of cockpit floor is covered as will as the bulkhead that seperates the engin room and the main salon. I believe this is different then what you will find on the F series. This boat was built at the Bertram plant in Fl on a Bertram hull. I have had a noise problem that is being adress with new mufflers. The mufflers designed by Trojan were worthless. I am having water lift mufflers built and should be installed this week or next. When only the gen set is running I hear nothing. I can only hear it if I stand on the swim platform near the exhaust port.

Bob

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:43 pm

This is what I used:

http://www.wilrep.com/WilrepDataSheets/ ... M/FTMM.htm

In the US these guys in Florida are experts:
http://www.soundown.com/AI.htm

wowzer52 · Post by **wowzer52** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:40 pm

The got mine from a marine service in Portland ,Or. Don't know the name of it but when I measured it was 2" thick with two thick rubber layers in the center of the foam and aluminum coating on one side.

wowzer52 · Post by **wowzer52** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:15 pm

I stand corrected, one rubber layer and one aluminum layer.