I got gas.....questions....

randyp · Post by **randyp** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:36 am

OK, I've just about run through all that sweet marine grade fuel I got last year on the canal and now am at the mercy of the two marinas near me that only have E10 fuel. There's a marine grade pump at another marina but that's 30 miles north of where I am. Questions for you:

1. How long does it take for the gas to start separating in the tank?
2. If you use stabilizers in your E10 what do you recommend as the best?
3. Any other issues you've had with E10?

Thanks!

koviak · Post by **koviak** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:38 pm

My experience with e-10 (evil-all) has been:
Phase seperation in about (1) month, Addittives I use are Startron fuel treatment and carry extra filters. I use 10 or 11 micron fuel/water seperate filters. Depends on the age your tanks, it will clean out all the old varnish deposits and be caught by your filters. Also check your fuel lines if they are rated for gasoline/achohol (rubber). It's always nice when goverment forces this crap on citizens!

alexander38 · Post by **alexander38** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:43 am

ditto the last post. if you have carb filters buy some of those to. and standby for he*l as that sh!t cleans every thing out of your old tanks. if you need to replace old steel ones now the time to do it.

and ask how old the gas is before you buy it. self life for it is 90 days. so when you get it use it.

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:30 am

the absolute best product out there is MDR E-ZORB(MDR-574). about 3 weeks ago, i asked my mechanic what he recommeded to mitigate the effects of phase separation. out of all the products out there, he recommended a bottle of MDR E-ZORB. he said, ''pour half in one tank, and half in the other, to get the product into the tank, and crank the engines to get it into the system." i did as he suggested, and the difference in performance and ease of starting is amazing. as a maintenence system, use the directions on the bottle. he did admit that there are a lot of products out there and out of all them, the e-zorb works the best. what it does is actually cause the water to be absorbed and mixed with the fuel, and it raises the octane level too. he actually showed me by putting some marine fuel in 3 glass jars and added a bit of water to all of them. he then poured a little bit of each product out there and i actually watched the water go away and the result was a glass jar of marine fuel. while not the cheapest product out there, it does work.
when you winterize, he also recommends another MDR product called STOR-N-START(MDR-549-565). <PRODUCT CODE DEPENDS ON THE AMOUNT IN THE BOTTLE> pour one bottle in each tank prior to winterizing.
again, out of all the products out there on the market, and in his 30 plus years as a marine mechanic, this is by far the best for winter storage.
of course, if you feel comfortable using a particular product, then go for it. all i know is the immediate difference it made on my engines, so from now on, i will use those products.
aaron

ltbrett · Post by **ltbrett** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:05 pm

I suspect the vast majority of e-10 users noticed no issues when switching over. Phase separation, while it can occur, is highly overblown and only occurs when there are underlying problems. Your biggest concern comes from the cleaning ability of ethnaol. Your first tankful will really polish up your fuel system. If you've got a lot of varnish, expect to change your filters. Maybe twice. Once over that hump, ethanol is pretty tough to phase separate. It absorbs quite a bit of water before separating. Remember dry gas? That's ethanol.

In CT, we switched to e-10 perhaps 4 seasons ago. I did all the research and was genuinely concerned. It was a non-issue. In fact, I think my fuel/water separators are redundant now. Two years ago, the marina put my boat on the hard earlier than expected. It had 1/3 tank of gas. I was very concerned--the ethanol experts are divided over whether you need a full tank or an empty one, but all seem to agree that half full aluminium tanks are likely to sweat and cause phase separation. Well, the boat was pulled in Dec and not launched until July. Started right up. Odds are, you'll have no problem. Here's the epa's take on phase separation. They agree it's pretty hard to phase separate your fuel unless you have an underlying problem that causes water to get into your tank.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf

Brett

LSP · Post by **LSP** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:09 pm

Arron .... looks like they have the product you are using right on this site...price looks good too. I guess I'll give it a try. Thanks for the info.

http://www.trojanboats.net/store.html#m0c562p15372

I also got a few shots of your neighbors Sunday....sorry, wasn't trying to take over the tread

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:04 am

hi will, wish you could have taken a few shots of phil and i going out sunday. we took EVENT HORIZON out for a run @0830 and returned around 11am--got her up to 3200rpm and just let her run free(i was checking out my new goretex stuffing box packing) then had lunch at the marina cafe. then he went home to tend to maccabee and i stayed until 1300. next time you are there, say hello. phil had the helm after we left the dock and i could not get it back till we nearly docked. he loves being on the bridge and i really enjoyed just sitting on the cabin top while we were underway. come by and check out my newly refinished swim platform!
try the E-ZORB. it's nice to see a product that works as good as it does.

aaron

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:38 am

Great Aaron so maybe you can bring the boat to st mikes

aaronbocknek · Post by **aaronbocknek** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:49 am

i only wish i could paul. you have no idea how much it pains me (dont worry it will pass) not to take her to st. michaels. but, phil cannot take the time off from his lawncare/home improvement business (i do not want to go for a run of that length by myself, and dad cannot make it up to the bridge, and maccabee would be beside himself for that long of a run. he still is getting used to the noise/sounds/vibrations underway, and no, i am not leaving him home in the care of someone else. so, for this trip, i will pack myself in the car and drive over to be with you fine people. and while we are on the subject, dad called me again last night and is just way too excited about meeting everyone.
aaron

randyp · Post by **randyp** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:17 am

As usual this thread has gone astray.....sheesh.

To cap it off, I bought 2 more 5 gallon portable tanks and filled up with 25 gallons of NON-ETHANOL gas at a Mobil station in Fonda, NY (about 15 miles from the boat). This place is like the gourmet deli of gas! They even sell JET FUEL (sweeeeeet! - I can get the old Blue Heron up and out of the water with that stuff.....briefly before it blows up..). Lugged the 25 gallons of REAL regular up to the club CAREFULLY poured the gas into a big-momma funnel (making sure nobody was around and my neighbor- the- smoker was not on his boat). 2 trips and the tank is full (nice thing about those single engine boats with small tanks.....). Price $2.79/gallon.

Of course, it I got t-boned or rear-ended My wife would not have had too make any arrangements for cremation......

I know I'll probably not do this again, and fill up with the E10 at the marina next door next time (any one want some 5 gallon gas cans?). Thanks for the information on E10 experiences before the thread took a detour.

LSP · Post by **LSP** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:17 am

Randy .... sorry for high-jacking your thread. Sometimes it just happens

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:27 am

Arround where I'm docked, the boating industry has been in such a decline that the marins near me that sold fuel have gone out of buisness. I would now have to burn 10 gal to get to the nearest marina that sells fuel.

So now I rely on jerry cans to do the job for my weekly boating and any long trips that we make usually include a fuel stop a one of the distant marinas.

The tree huggers and sail boaters tend to get all up in arms when they hear about someone pouring gas into a boat from a portable tank because they figure that some of it has to end up in the water. I don't see it that way. At the price of fuel, the last thing I'll do is let it go anyware other than inside my tank.

randyp · Post by **randyp** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:28 pm

No biggie Will. I enjoyed the pictures.....HEY, WAIT! I just hijacked my own thread!

foofer b · Post by **foofer b** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:46 pm

Does any one recommend sea foam for gas additive? How about Stabil ?

obeejr · Post by **obeejr** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:17 am

In Connecticut, we switched to ethanol several years ago.

Like many, I had big problems with the alcohol scrubbing off the crud that had built up on the insides of my tanks, and i went through a lot of gas filters until I got an electric fuel pump and took a few gallons of gas from the bottom of each tank, were the worst of the crud was.

I store my boat on land for six months during the off season, and have never has a problem with phase separation.

I use Stabil in my tanks during storage, nothing during the season. I have friends who swear by Startron but, since my experience with Stabil has been just as positive, I don't know how they can say one is better than the other. All either can do is stabilize the gas- neither can prevent phase separation or put gas back together if it has already separated. Startron claims to "break down water and sludge into sub-micron size allowing to to be safely burned away". However, you don't need Startron to burn water that is still mixed with gas, and once the phase separaion occurs Startron can't help you at all.