built in tanks

[Seafun]

"built into hull waste and potable water tanks"
RWS
Question : Where was the waste tank originally located on the Trojan 10 meter?
Mine is a 1983 Express Cruiser. The water tank is located under cabin floor?

[Moderator]

I moved your post to its own thread , I am sure RWS will see it

[todd brinkerhoff]

Probably under the forward cabin bunk.

[RWS]

As originally engineered and designed by Harry Schoell, the first series of vessels produced in the International Series was the ten meter.
In addition to her ground breaking (for the time) styling and revolutionary hull design, there are a number of other notable features, including the concept of modular design. To quote from BOATING magazine, August 1982…..

TROJAN INTERNATIONAL: MAKING WAVES by Capt. Bob Armstrong & Doug Schryver, page 58+

Schoell’s design for the ten meter and the generation of offspring to come will be lasting, because of it’s flexibility. Want a radar arch? Just notch it here, behind the bridge fairing – there’s a place for it in the design. Want an aft cabin? Mount it on pre arranged coamings that just sit there looking pretty on the open cockpit models. And so on.

But there’s more. Several major parts, including the hull are laminated and joined together (liners get coated with a resin “glue” composed of mica chips and polyester-plus BPO catalyst, then pulled against the hull with vacuum); headliners also get the vacuum bonding technique, and have all wiring and ducting dressed-in before the parts go together; and engine beds and exhaust routing are not only built-in to the liner system, but designed to take a wide variety of power options – from diesels to a pair of mighty 500-hp raceboat engines by Jerry Jacoby’s Hawk Marine.

Shafts are all sized to take the maximum power setup. The water and waste tanks are built into the main liner system. The access ports are pre-planned to reach all critical equipment. And the careful ganging of all electrics at one location near the helm makes for ease in trouble shooting and routine maintenance.

<snip>

Some of this designed in quality is pure Harry Schoell, with the prodigious assist from chief engineer Ron Pickle.

<snip>

So, in the original design, the area between the center stringers is where we find the tanks. The 40 gallon fresh water tank is forward; built into the hull, under the center floor storage compartment, between the stringers and in front of the forward bilge. The 40 gallon waste tank lies between the stingers, in the engine room, starting at the engine room fwd bulkhead, back to the engine room bilge.
These built in tanks are separated by the bulkhead and bilge.

I have personally removed the lid on the waste tank and re-sealed it. I was surprised to see find gel coated surfaces inside the tank and the lid has a gel coated baffle built into it. The waste tank lid also serves as the “floor” in the center of the engine room.

RWS

[Seafun]

Thanks you gentlemen for taking the time...
On my 1983 10 meter, the waste tank was removed and relocated by previous owner....I have been thinking about buying a rectagular tank that will fit into that unused space. Only problem is the Mid ship Bilge pump would have to be relocated back, to fit under the generator.

BTW, I concord , the gelcoat is this compartment, where the waste tank used to be located is in immaculate conditions.,

RWS
You made this interesting statement on a old post and I quote:
"The engine room bilge is isolated, the fwd and aft bilge are "connected" via the common area that connects the two under the liner - between the liner and the hull."

Question.
Recently, I discovered this water channel that runs at the very bottom of the Bilge. I noticed a drain on the very back center of the hull ( behind the fuel tank's floor) and it runs forward to the Eng. room, where there is another drain located on the floor (under Generator) ' .....It is basically like a water Drain at the lowest point of the V hull...
My question is.....
DOes this channel also RUNS Forward under the Waste tank , all the way to the Forward Bilge pump area??????

If that is the case, I have not been able to locate the location of the drain in the Fwd Bilge compartment....
I Connected a water hose on the drain located under the Generator ( Eng. Room comparment and cleaned this water channel with water Presure , but I did not notice the water moving forward to the forward bilge, as it will normally be he case due to the fact the the 10 meter is Bow heavy.

Thank you in advance!

[RWS]

A couple of my own observations, not to be considered facts.

Aside from the driveline, genny, and numerous pump style/location/fitting upgrades, this boat is essentially stock.

She is lift kept. On the lift she is up on an angle, a bit like being on plane.

On the lift, any water that was in the fwd bilge compartment flows under the liner, via the keel to the aft bilge area.

When in the water, the lowest point is the forward bilge.

If you lift the hatch and look rearward, you will see the opening to the keel for the water to flow.

As I see it, the engine room bilge is in the liner, rendering it separate from the fwd/aft bilge areas.

With the lighter weight Yanmar diesels, it is possible that we sit in the water differently, however given the center of gravity location on the express, this is probably not an issue.

I do know of an aft cabin 10 meter that sank at the dock after weeks of rain, with dead batteries. As I was told, she did not go down at an angle ala Titanic, but simply slowly settled into the water, bit by bit.

These boats have a bilge alarm, with all three bilges tied to the boats horns. Of course if the batteries are dead, the bilge alarm is inoperative.

I have since added another emergency bilge pump to this boat (she now has two) placing it in the forward bilge, and added a digital bilge pump counter.

This past year I found it necessary to flush out the 30 years worth of accumulated gunk and debris from this area.

Trust me, it was nasty, but I highly recommend it.

It is a simple procedure and something I will now do once a year.

RWS

[Seafun]

RWS
"As I see it, the engine room bilge is in the liner, rendering it separate from the fwd/aft bilge areas."
"If you lift the hatch and look rearward, you will see the opening to the keel for the water to flow."

- "he engine room compartment is in the liner"
OK, I believe my boat was then modified and a hole was drilled through the Liner on the bilgue compartment under the generator, conecting the engine room to the Keel water channel....And has its Pros and Cons....

CONS..Any oil spill in the bilge will end up in the Forward Bilgue.

Since you have your Boat on a LIFT, it is very easy to clean the Water Channel under the Liner by simply removing the Plug and connecting a water hose on Foward Bilge Hole ( Drain).
In my case, the boat is in the water and the dirt from the engine Room ends up in the Forward belly, since a hole ( drain) was drilled though the liner in the Engine Room.
I am comtemplating to seal the drain in ER and relocate Mid Ship Blige pump under the Generator....
WHERE IS YOUR MIDSHIP BILGUE PUMP LOCATED?

[RWS]

RWS
"As I see it, the engine room bilge is in the liner, rendering it separate from the fwd/aft bilge areas."
"If you lift the hatch and look rearward, you will see the opening to the keel for the water to flow."

- "he engine room compartment is in the liner"
OK, I believe my boat was then modified and a hole was drilled through the Liner on the bilgue compartment under the generator, conecting the engine room to the Keel water channel....And has its Pros and Cons....

CONS..Any oil spill in the bilge will end up in the Forward Bilgue.

Since you have your Boat on a LIFT, it is very easy to clean the Water Channel under the Liner by simply removing the Plug and connecting a water hose on Foward Bilge Hole ( Drain).
In my case, the boat is in the water and the dirt from the engine Room ends up in the Forward belly, since a hole ( drain) was drilled though the liner in the Engine Room.
I am comtemplating to seal the drain in ER and relocate Mid Ship Blige pump under the Generator....
WHERE IS YOUR MIDSHIP BILGUE PUMP LOCATED?

========================================================================================================================================

I have seen photos of your boat sometime back in 2011 perhaps? when I communicated with the owner Wes? or Will? A link to the brokers page was actually posted on this Forum.

Your boat is highly modified and nicely re-finished and restored.

She is absolutely a Bristol, first class vessel.

As I recall, some of the modifications done did not make too much sense to me, but not knowing the logic or reasoning behind them makes it difficult to assess them.

I didn't understand the elimination of the built in water/waste tanks or the reason for moving the batteries from the centerline of the boat out to the port/starboard gunnel areas.

To answer your question, the factory bilge pump is located under the genset, behind the built into hull waste tank. The battery box is mounted on top of the waste tank and also serves as a step into the engine room. (better with non skid applied to the lid)

The engine room bilge compartment is part of the engine room liner and is as I believe, totally separate from the rest of the bilge system.

I do not understand the advantage of removing this feature.

I added two additional emergency bilge pumps, one in the ER, one in the FWD bilge, both wired to the isolated generator battery and 100% separate, isolated and independent from the factory system.

If Cap Morgan was mine, I'd seal the ER bilge as it was originally designed and then put DAWN dish detergent in the FWD bilge on a regular basis.

When you are out there running, it will mix with the bilge water AND when you get up on plane, all the soapy mess will shift aft, she should get clean quickly.

I need to post a new thread with the photos and details of my adding the additional 2 bilge pumps and counter, a safety measure I strongly recommend.

RWS

[Seafun]

Thank you RWS!
Yes, Captain Morgan is a nice 10 meter EXpress Cruiser and I have made a lot of upgrades throughout the boat, including a new pexiglass companion Entry door. Now I am into the preventive maintanance mode and trying to learn all the design deatails.
I totally agree with your statement about connecting the ER bilge to the Water drain under the liner IS Not a great advantage....
In my case, the only advantange is redundancy. due to the fact the OLD waste tank space ( removed) provides an extra water circulation inside the liner. ( the old WT has been drilled as well for drainage and it connects Now the Fwd and Mid ( under GEnne) compartments, providing water pumping redundancy in the event of a Bilge pump failure ( or tripped Breaker) since all the compartments ( FWD, Mid, AFT are now connected through the water drainge under the Haul Liner....
I am considering the posibility of:

. Reutilizing the Waste tank
.Isolating the ER Bilgue
.Connecting Emergency pumps to FWD Bilge.....

Of course, my concern in reutilizing the Waste Tank is the posibility of a leak from the waste tank.Probably the solution is to install a rectangular plastic tank that will fill the Waste Tank space...

Which leads into my next Question!

My boat is very Dry in the Aft and Mid bilge compartments except for the typical minor Water leak from the stuffing Box, however I have a mysterious Small and Constant Water Leak into the FWD Bilgue Comp that comes from the Starboard's side center Stringer .....
The water comes through a hole on the Right Center Stringer right into the FWD Bilge Comp ( Not sure whether this drain is a factory drain or IF it Was purposely drilled)

Anyways, it constantly drains the mysterious water into the FWD Bilge Comp.
I suspect probably a minor leak from the starboard side of the factory Water tank, OR considering the Woodless Stringers is hollow, that the water could be flowing from the back of the ship....However, there is no evidence of leak inside the ER Hull liner..
Does the water drainage under the liner ALSO EXIST outside of the Two center Woodless Stringers that comprise the Waste Tank and the Water tank???.? PORT <-I I->. STARB Center Woodless Stringers?

Any ideas?

[RWS]

I think the first step should be to determine whether it is salt water or fresh water from rain/washdown.

RWS

[Seafun]

OK,
I will confirm if it is Salty or fresh water...No smell though...

Does the water drainage under the Hull LINER, ALSO EXTEND outside ( outboard) of the Two Center Stringers???

[RWS]

I TRULY DO NOT KNOW.

Perhaps a thru hull fitting (poss raw water intakes?) is allowing seawater to enter the boat, and it is coming in between the hull and the liner?

RWS