Let's Talk Batteries....and Hook Ups

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Natchamp
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Let's Talk Batteries....and Hook Ups

Post by Natchamp »

I am working on getting things ready to fire my engines up. I need to verify a couple of things since this boat is new to me and when I got the boat it only had one battery in it.

Question 1: Am I correct in that I need 2 high cranking amp batteries and 1 deep cycle battery? The way I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) is one of the high cranking batteries is dedicated for the engines while the other runs the house 12v system. There is a paralleling solenoid that connect both batteries while cranking and there is a manual paralleling swith on the dash. The deep cycle is dedicated for the generator. Is this the best way to configure it? A friend of mine is saying I might be better suited to have 2 golf cart 6v batteries (in series to get 12v) as the battery for the 12v house stuff. Since I am going to be buying batteries and re-doing the wiring I want to check to see if there is another/better way.

Question 2: Am I correct in understanding that in the below pic the green arrow is pointing to the paralleling solenoid, and the red arrows are pointing to the port/srtb master circuit breakers? If so, how do the master breakers actuate? There appears to be red "buttons" on the outside of the battery box but they do not push in and there is no handle to flip/swith them. Also, is the paralleling solenoid a standard automotive 12v solenoid or is it special for some reason with a marine price tag?

Thanks for any advise. If anyone has a simple battery hookup diagram please post it as I'm trying to figure out where things go since I can't simply look at what's there now with only one battery.

Mark

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prowlersfish
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Post by prowlersfish »

You may get a lot of different answers , and most will be right . cranking batteries for both engines , one may also be the main house battery , you can use a dual purpose battery for that . gen set I prefer a cranking battery .

Golf cart batteries ? forget then with your current set up ( you been talking to a sail boater right ?? )

How are you going to be using the boat ?
Over night on the hook ? no heavy inverter or 12 volt loads ? using the gen set for power ? stay with the cranking batteries

Days on end on the hook using battery power to run most power needs ? then maybe golf cart batteries or deep cycles Set up to run the house loads ( not engine) this will requirer some rewiring ,but not that hard .

My thoughts on dual purpose batteries the do better the cranking for house loads and better the deep cycle for cranking . BUT they are not as good as the right battery for the job they are a compromise at best . I have used them and won't do it again .

deep cycle vs golf cart batteries ?both do a great job for house batteries . It is a little simpler to go with a deep cycle as the golf cart batteries are 6 volt and need to be wire 2 in a series to get 12 volts.


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Post by wowzer52 »

That solenoid should be a "continuous duty" solenoid. not the same as a automotive solenoid. Automotive solenoids are intended to work short durations only. Do a search for "solenoid battery crossover" and you'll see what I did with mine system. Like Prowlerfish said, you'll find different ideas for different apps. Good luck finding out what's right for you.
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prowlersfish
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Post by prowlersfish »

The solenoid should be one that safe in a marine environment . that battery box can be full of battery fumes and all it takes is one spark and boom .

I believe if that is part of the emergency start system a marine stater sol will work but continuous duty would be better . If is part of a continuous cross over then a continuous duty solenoid would be needed . But if thats the case I would replace it with a switch as a solenoid would use up needed power
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g36
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Post by g36 »

as far as a house bank you will need to decide on what your boating needs are. i am a big beliver in golf cart batteries. i also do a have a bigger invertor than most and i need the capacity. i anchor out alot and spend a good deal of time out floating around in the water. i dont want to hear or run my generator to only keep a fridge running and to charge a battery. i have sized my house bank (4 golf carts)for what i need.i have also replaced most of my interior and anchor light with led bulbs. if you plan on hardly ever anchoring overnight or longer at one time or plan on running your generator alot then 1 deep cycle could be enough for you. to keep a battery working for you the longest you do not want to discharge it more than half of its rated capacity.
and yes i am also a blow boater
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Natchamp
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Post by Natchamp »

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. My typical use will probably be just one day trips for fishing and cruising. So I'll plan my batteries accordingly.

regarding the question about the master circuit breakers aon the battery box, are those actual circuit breakers or simply a battery master cutt-off switch? Isn't there a master DC ciruit breaker in the main electrical cabinet below the helm? I will be replacing them so I'm trying to figure out if I need actual circuit protection at that point or just a cutt-off switch.

Circuit breaker like this?

http://www.iboats.com/Blue-Sea-185-Seri ... w_id.14580

Circuit switch like this?

http://www.iboats.com/Blue-Sea-e-Series ... w_id.14587

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Post by jddens »

I have one LARGE cranking battery used for both engines. Originally I had 4 6V golf cart Batts for house power. I have a Heart 2KW inverter. I do NOT have a generator. We anchor out regularly for 1-2 nights. Only thing running continuously is a small dorm size refer. Also have an electrasan treatment system that draws a ton of amps when cycling. The golf cart batts worked great but eventually need replacing. After shopping around I decided to change from the 4 6Volts to 2 Group 29 deep cycle. The cost the the group 29's were 1/3 the cost of 4, 6V. My house and cranking batt are independent of each other but are combinable if necessary. I also have a 120 amp alternator on the port motor. Being somewhat anal, I also carry a heavy duty jumper pack under the dinette........this setup works great for me and my boating style..........John
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Post by RWS »

The 10 meter International series are wired differently than the others utilizing a "house" battery.

I do not have any idea as to WHY, I just know it is so in my 1983 Express Curiser model.

The batteries simply follow the 12 volt side of the circuit breaker panel, port and starboard sides.

In owning this boat over 10 years I have utilized AGM batteries, dual purpose and high amp cranking batteries.

For our uses of cruising, fishing and overnighting in the long run our best solution is to go with standard lead/acid batteries (group 27 or 31 will work well) for the cranking batteries AND for the genny (group 24).

While the factory battery charger was working well, it had a tendency to overcharge the batteries.

Changing over to a Xantrex 3 bank charger with a remote LED panel extended battery life tremendously.

We also added an analog battery voltage meter with a 3 way toggle switch which allows us to check each of the three batteries at any time, easily and quickly.

When I got the boat, the generator battery was tied to the port battery, which allowed it to receive a charge from the port alternator.

I added a simple battery disconnect switch to completely isolate that battery from the rest of the electrical system, unless it is needed to be tied back to the port battery which can be done by simply turning the switch.

The Xantrex charger charges all three batteries from AC power, either shore power or with the charger on running from the genny when for example we're on the hook.

Engines ON, the Xantrex breaker is turned OFF.

This arrangement allows us to start each engine on it's own battery.

If one is down, a simple crossover from the other side works fine.

In the event they are both down, manually switch over the genny battery and the genny and port battery are together. PLUS you can always add in the emergency crossover solenoid to where now all three batteries can be used to start either engine or the genny if necessary.

Isolating that genny battery allows you a big insurance policy id the other batteries are allowed to drain down ads besides the abilityt to tie them together, you can always charge all three from the genny with the Xantrex.

The only other item tied to the genny battery is the fourth bilge pump we added during the refit. It's a 3500gph pump with a high mounted float switch that comes on ONLY in the event of an emergency.

This is what we have found to work best for us on the 10 meter International.

As far as the batteries themselves are concerned, the lead/acid low maintenance we get from the big box store are reasonabnly inexpensive and we change them out every 4 years regardless of condition.

With the Xantrex, we rarely have to add water.

RWS
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Post by RWS »

here are some photos of the 3 way battery switch and the LED Xantrex charge indicator.

Image


here's the 3 battery meter:

Image


here's a few shots of the battery bay:

Image



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1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

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Post by RWS »

By the way, using the label maker here was a great idea as once when changing out the batteries, I swapped 2 cables by mistake.

cables to the windlass, the center battery "bridge" to port and the small harness wired to the voltmeter with the inline fuses were added to the factory wiring and are clearly marked.

I have started using the labelmaker in other spots where iundetification od wires is important. Wish I had started this 10 years ago, however I am lucky that with the exception to the 12v breakers being changed over to plain toggle switches, the electrical system on this boat was generally unmolested.

RWS
Last edited by RWS on Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
1983 Trojan International 10 Meter
Twin Yanmar 315 Turbodiesels
Solid Glass Hull
Woodless Stringers
Full Hull Liner

Trojan International Website: http://trojanboat.com/

WEBSITE & SITELOCK TOTALLY SELF FUNDED

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Batteries

Post by Mike Kulp »

I like everybody's posts about there batteries in relation to how they use there boats because that is what it comes down to. On my 10 meter I installed a seperate group 24 for my generator that is isolated from all other systems, installed two group 29 wired together that start my port motor and power up the house systems, 1 group 24 that starts my starboard motor and powers up things that are used while running the boat. I do not run my battery charger all the time because of cooking the batteries, they last about five years this way. The solenoid in your box should be a parallel switch to connect your two start batteries in case one goes dead. the circuit breakers with the red buttons should never have to be touched unless you have a dead short in the system and then you have to push in the red buttons to reset them. When I installed all my batteries into my boat I traced out all the circuits and installed most house loads to the group 29 batteries that were tied together, you have to becareful of load draw so you will have to do some math to ensure that you do not overload any wiring or circuits. Have fun.

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Re: Let's Talk Batteries....and Hook Ups

Post by diverdave »

Will the manual come with a battery wiring diagram , my Trojan came with no batteries at all ,looks like it may have had four and all I can see is a pile of worms.

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Re: Let's Talk Batteries....and Hook Ups

Post by P-Dogg »

On my tricabin cranking 270 crusaders I use the biggest deep cycle batteries that fit in the box, and always use the parallel switch even though the batteries crank the engines fine when not paralleled. For the generator I use a cranking battery, because it is not connected to the house system.

Why? Because my 270s don't draw tons of current when starting, then I have the deep draw capabilities to run house loads while on the hook. If I was cranking big diesels, my answer would be different. People will tell you this is blasphemy, and that you should never use deep cycle batteres for cranking, but after three seasons I have no complaints.

I have a 40 amp promariner 3 bank smart charger, which I think is fabulous.

If you're doing battery work, you might consider getting blue sea fuses that go on the battery terminals. They are the only reasonable way I know to meet the ABYC recommended 7 inch distance for fusing.

I bought a hydraulic crimper off of eBay for like $70. I recommend nice crimped terminals instead of the clamped connections from the auto store. Genuinedealz also makes custom cables. They are a good source for wire and fittings.
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Re: Let's Talk Batteries....and Hook Ups

Post by prowlersfish »

It should , BTW what model Trojan do you have ?

diverdave wrote:Will the manual come with a battery wiring diagram , my Trojan came with no batteries at all ,looks like it may have had four and all I can see is a pile of worms.
P-Dogg wrote:On my tricabin cranking 270 crusaders I use the biggest deep cycle batteries that fit in the box, and always use the parallel switch even though the batteries crank the engines fine when not paralleled. For the generator I use a cranking battery, because it is not connected to the house system.

Why? Because my 270s don't draw tons of current when starting, then I have the deep draw capabilities to run house loads while on the hook. If I was cranking big diesels, my answer would be different. People will tell you this is blasphemy, and that you should never use deep cycle batteres for cranking, but after three seasons I have no complaints.

I have a 40 amp promariner 3 bank smart charger, which I think is fabulous.

If you're doing battery work, you might consider getting blue sea fuses that go on the battery terminals. They are the only reasonable way I know to meet the ABYC recommended 7 inch distance for fusing.

I bought a hydraulic crimper off of eBay for like $70. I recommend nice crimped terminals instead of the clamped connections from the auto store. Genuinedealz also makes custom cables. They are a good source for wire and fittings.
Perry do you know that this is a 4 year old thread :mrgreen:
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Life is to short for a ugly boat :D

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Re: Let's Talk Batteries....and Hook Ups

Post by Flyboy »

I have a 1981 10 meter. I have 2 deep cycle batteries to start the engines and 1 high amp cranking battery for the generator. On my boat, both engine batteries serve as the house batteries, the Port engine battery runs the left side of my DC panel (mostly lights). The Starboard battery runs the right side of my DC panel (radio, galley vent fan, and some other stuff). The generator charges it's own battery.
You are correct that when you start an engine, the solenoid engages and allows both batteries to start the engine. In the event of a dead battery, you can move the switch at the helm to use the good battery to start an engine. If it does not work when you move the switch to lets say the RH side, then move the switch to the LH side.
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