Repowering 1980 F-36

Danny Bailey · Post by **Danny Bailey** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:25 pm

I'm in the final stages of gathering parts for turning my Chrysler 440's into Cummins 6BTA 250's and am planning on swapping them out this fall. These are original 330 HP 440's with Borg Warner 72C 1.91:1 gears...1200 hours, but all still works good. If anyone is interested in these engines/gears for a restoration project, they could see them run this summer. I'll let 'em go cheap in the fall just to keep them out of my shop (I have way to much 'stuff'). If interested send me an e-mail.

JuiceClark · Post by **JuiceClark** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:35 pm

You can fill us all in after the big conversion. But I'd really like to know
why you went with the Cummins (know they fit), how the shaft log changes and all that works out, how she performs and all the dirty details. There's not one F-36 owner out here who hasn't, at least, thought about doin' that project!

Mac32 · Post by **Mac32** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Danny,
I have a f32 with 318's that I am planning to yank next fall to do a rebuild. So the question for the forum is..........

Go on guess what I am going to ask...............

You know its coming.............

"What would it take to put these in a F32? ":shock:

Or just say I am crazy.......

Fred

Danny Bailey · Post by **Danny Bailey** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:40 am

Mac32 - To put 250 Cummins in a F-32 or the 440's?
JuiceClark - It is a tight fit, but with ZF 10 degree down angle transmissions, they will go in there. Height not length is the touchy part. My last boat was a 28' Chris Craft. I pulled the 350 Chevy out of it after it dropped a valve, and installed a 210 Cummins, so I'm not entirely new to the job. I used the Cummins installation print for preliminary measurements before I started buying and rebuilding used Cummins. I went with Cummins because of weight and size versus horsepower. Cats are too big and heavy. 3208's seem to be durable engines, but are so large and heavy. 3116's have durability problems. Yanmars are completely out of my price range. 6BT's are easy to come by, easy to work on, and will last if you don't try to run 'em wide open all the time.

Mac32 · Post by **Mac32** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:32 pm

Sorry, I was not clear on which one.
What I should have said is, I may be interested in your 440's if they would fit in a f32.

Fred

Danny Bailey · Post by **Danny Bailey** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:06 pm

Fred,
I'm not familiar with the engine compartment of an F-32. If you like, I will measure the distance between mounts laterally and fore and aft, total length from shaft coupling to front of engine, and heigth from shaft coupling to highest point on the engine. Unless those 318's are really a tight fit, I don't see why a 440 wouldn't go in. Let me know.
Danny

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:30 pm

Danny glad its starting to come to gether feel free to contact me if you have any questions

Paul

jimmiedcharters · Post by **jimmiedcharters** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:05 am

Yes the 440's will fit in a F-32 with no problem at all. There are a few things different. The coupler on the shaft will have to be changed to a 5 inch coupler. Also the wiring harness will need to be retrofitted a little depending on the make of engine. Merc, crusader, etc. The motor mounts will line up just need to drill a few extra holes in the stringers.

Danny Bailey · Post by **Danny Bailey** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:18 pm

Thanks Paul. My transmissions are on the way. The last big item is having new fuel tanks made.

Second thought on putting 440's in an F-32.....what size prop can an F-32 accomodate? 1.91:1 gears may be too low of a ratio for a smaller prop. They are turning 20X21 three blades now.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:17 pm

Danny the F32 is limited to a 17" prop max (without major changes in struts /angle etc) I would think 1.5 gear to be the max could use 1 to 1 or somthing in between .

Paul

JuiceClark · Post by **JuiceClark** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:38 pm

Hey Danny,
I was re-reading this ol' post:
"JuiceClark - It is a tight fit, but with ZF 10 degree down angle transmissions, they will go in there. Height not length is the touchy part. My last boat was a 28' Chris Craft. I pulled the 350 Chevy out of it after it dropped a valve, and installed a 210 Cummins, so I'm not entirely new to the job. I used the Cummins installation print for preliminary measurements before I started buying and rebuilding used Cummins. I went with Cummins because of weight and size versus horsepower. Cats are too big and heavy. 3208's seem to be durable engines, but are so large and heavy. 3116's have durability problems. Yanmars are completely out of my price range. 6BT's are easy to come by, easy to work on, and will last if you don't try to run 'em wide open all the time."
===========================

Did you buy rebuilds or new? If so, where. I found a guy on the east coast of FL with a pair of rebuilds for $11k each. They seem like the obvious choice but my brother is a big-shot with Cat. in Peoria. So, I wonder if those 3116s, although heavier, would fit. He says the problems they had with them earlier have been solved. Do I believe him...?

I didn't realize how expensive the gears are. My shaft doesn't look like it's more than 5 degrees...is that thing really 10 degrees?

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:22 pm

I have the ZF 220A gears they are 10 deg down angle the engines sit pretty close to level with them .

Paul

JuiceClark · Post by **JuiceClark** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:14 pm

Those 220 gears seem to be the ones. I was looking at other diesel F-36s on Yachtworld today to see their engine compartments. The cummins seems the way to go. I don't think 3116 Cats will fit unless I raise the floor....screw that. And those Yanmars really are damn pricey...if I want to cruise at 3500 RPM I'll just keep the 502s.

Anyway, tripped over this F-36 with 6BTAs on Yachtworld. It must have something wrong with it...can it really be that cheap...$60k? Right next to it was a 36' Pace (bought all their hulls from Trojan) with the same engines for $120k. Somethin' weird goin' on with these low Trojan prices.

http://dolphinyachtsales.com/core/listi ... dolphininc&

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:50 am

Juice,

I looked at the link, it's a really nice boat.

The only red flag I saw was this

"Twin 300hp Cummins 6BT diesels: port w/ 107hrs, starboard w/ 173hrs."

However, please consider this.

While we are part of a devoted following of knowledgable boaters who are very well aware of the attributes of our "BRAND" most folks are not. The Trojan name is a good one, but at the yard and on the dock the "talk" is that it's a good boat, but it simply does not have the reputation of names like Bertrams & Hatteras. Aside from the few name stealing knockoffs built in the mid 90's it's been 15 years since a real Trojan was built. There's no advertising going out anymore, and unlike the Bertram and Hatteras names who continue on our vessels have been orphans for years. What is the profile of someone buying a used 30' - 40' vessel? Why would someone who is not knowledgable consider buying a 25+ year old boat?

Those of us who own a Trojan are fortunate to have a vessel with outstanding value that is not recognized in the marketplace. It would be safe to say that the actual value continues to far exceed the market prices for used vessels.

Imagine a vessel with a similar layout to yours, same model year with the name Bayliner, Sea Ray or Maxum on the side. Not even a comparison and certainly not worthy of a repower.

I suppose the good news is that as long as we maintain our vessels, they will never go down in value as they have reached the bottom of thier depreciation curve. The values may in fact increase with the prices of new boats increasing. Long after the other price competitive brands have been scuttled, our Trojans will soldier on however they will never command the resale value of the Hatts and Berts. If they did, many of us never could have afforded these boats in the first place when we bought our own.

The Trojan name has been out of the limelight for years, and is becomming forgotten by buyers. Who wants to buy a used Oldsmobile, or a Studebaker? (I own 2 Studies) and what kind of competitive price do they really command? Websites like this one are valuable to the resale of our orphaned brand. It would be valuable if someone could add to this site or create one with resources like older magazine articles and boat reviews that expounded on the virtues of the brand.

In addition to this site, the web offers several other Trojan websites, including the Boat US, Trojanownersclub and the now defunct TBOA (Trojan Boat Owners of America). The best thing for us would be one single strong website with tremendous resources. Take a look at the Egg Harbor, Hatteras and Bertram sites and you'll see what I mean.

If anyone is interested in putting such a website together, I have been collecting dealer brochures and magazine reviews specific to the 1980's 10 Meter International series which I could contribute.

If there is enough interest, I'd be happy to repost this under a new heading on all the Trojan sites.

The replies to this post should be most interesting.

RWS

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:23 am

why not help build up this web site ? right know its the best we have
we all should thank Bob for it .

Paul

Trojan Boat Forum

Repowering 1980 F-36

Repowering 1980 F-36

I wanna know about the diesels

6Bs

ZF gears