Rebedding Rail, 10 meter midcabin

gardnersf · Post by **gardnersf** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:55 am

Hi all,

I want to remove and rebed my deck fittings including my rails. Has anyone done this on a 10 meter midcabin? What are the pitfalls to removing the rail? I assuem tehy are through bolted, how do I get to the backside of the fittings.

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:05 am

Did it on my express cruiser.

Yes, they are all throughbolted and they also have backing plates.

We rebedded them with 5200 and replaced all the fasteners.

On the express cruiser access is available via the port closet, salon ceiling light recesses, anchor locker, fwd cabin storage locker, stbd closet and through removal of the medicine cabinat in the head.

You will have to start at one end and work your way around keeping several loose at the same time.

Not a bad project.

RWS

gardnersf · Post by **gardnersf** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:29 am

RWS,

So if I understand , you removed several at a time, rebedded and then kept working your way around so the rail never was fully off the boat, correct? Sounds like a good plan. Did yuo rebed your cleats as well?

I will be using 3M 4000 for the rail but will probably use 5200 for the cleats. I had leaking nav lights that I already fixed. I puled the lights, carved out the wood in the deck and filled with West Systems epoxy mixed to a laste with filler. Then rebeded the lights with 4000. I'm still getting some water in but am slowly removing possibilities and the amount of water seems to be lessening each time.

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:28 am

One comment on using 4200... I have heard of problems related to softening of 4200 vs 5200 from sun's radiant heat. I personally would use 5200 in that location.

jimbo36 · Post by **jimbo36** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:51 am

I agree with ready123 on the 5200 vs 4200. In addition to his comments, it also adds to the firmness of stanchion bases as it is also a strong adhesive. Basic rule of thumb, 5200 where you will not likely be romoving the fitting and 4200 where you may be. Jimbo36.

wowzer52 · Post by **wowzer52** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:51 am

I used 3M 4200 because it stays soft enough to flex a little when people lean or pull on the railing. I would rather have a bent rail without leaking than a bent rail that leaks. I don't know for sure if it makes that big of a difference but I have not had a problem since.

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:31 pm

wowzer52 wrote:I used 3M 4200 because it stays soft enough to flex a little when people lean or pull on the railing.

Interesting idea... how much does the flange actually lift? That suggests that the hold down bolts are in fact not tight... so do they continue to loosen with ongoing flexing?

Personally I would not follow that design idea.... I might also suggest that any flexing of the hold down point might well be all in your mind.... I can't believe that you intentionally did not tighten the bolts fully to allow for no flex.

gardnersf · Post by **gardnersf** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:00 pm

Thanks Veryone, I was going to use the 4000UV http://www.shop3m.com/marine-adhesive-s ... -cure.html But now I remember why I used that. It was to caulk the lexan windows and it would be exposed to the sun. 5200 it is then.

I assume It is easier with caulk gun tubes, how many do you think I need?

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:23 pm

1 tube and a caulking gun should do what you want.

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:31 pm

Hi Scott,

I did the 5200 thing as it seemed to make the most sense.

Also did the fwd and midship cleats - did not to the rear cleats under the hawse pipe.

I'd bet I have the same issue you have with the port & stbd red/green running lights as after a gard rain I will see a few drops on the vanity in the head.

Will try your solution (or at least put it on the DO list!)

RWS

BobCT · Post by **BobCT** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:48 pm

pics to follow.

Have guys re-bed the rub rail? I have a leak on the port side above the two port windows. I pulled the soffit which holds the speakers and I can see that it's coming in around where the rub rail attaches to the hull.

I saw this last year and ran a bead the full length of the boat between the rail and boat and backed out and reinstalled the screws which attach the SS strip to the black rubber part (with 4200).

I did this all in haste but it'll still be leaking once I take the cover off.

Are there screws that attach the rubber part to the boat underneath the SS strip? Maybe that's my issue but I would have thought the bead on top would have solved that problem unless the water is working it's way underneath.

Bob

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:39 pm

On an F32 the rub rail itself is fastened to the hull, then the stainless strip is fastened over top, so you probably have the same setup. I also had some moisture showing inside a few years back, but caulking the top of the rub rail-to-hull seam around the entire perimeter of the boat solved it.

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:44 pm

Another point to check is around the head of the bolts that hold the rubrail on from the outside... sometimes the plug ontop of them is missing or porous.... that allows water to follow the bolt shaft to the inside. 5200 seals that well from the outside.

gardnersf · Post by **gardnersf** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:31 pm

OK, just an update on the job. My wife and I made substantial progress on this today

The pulpit and furthest aft stanchions are held in with three through bolts. (7/16" Nut)

The rest have a single bolt that is welded onto the stanchion with three screws into the fiberglass. Only the bolt comes through. The bolt has a 3/4" nut and is pretty substantial. I have the whole rail out but bungeed to the boat to keep it from moving. I am on the hard still.

No backing plates (unless they are under glass) but the bolts all had large fender washers and lock washers.

We have all the mounting locations cleaned up (used razor scraper and acetone). I have the mounting areas masked.

The bedding compound was done reasonably well before. I had minor spots of rot on a couple of stanchions and one substantial but of rot. (The stanchion nearest the stbd nav light). I drilled out the single bolt holes with an 1 1/8 hole saw. Then I covered the bottom and filled with West Systems epoxy thickened with silica. This will seal the deck. I will need to redrill the holes tomorrow after the epoxy cures.

All in all, I'm pretty pleased. Only two holes had rot beyond the hole saw cut and only one with any quantity. That means my deck is in good shape. I actually knew it was when I bought it from the surveyor but good to know it hasn't gotten worse in the last two years.

We also pulled the port "skylight" hatch to rebed and caulk. I did the starboard last year. It is all cleaned up, masked and ready to go.

Tomorrow is caulking day and reinstallation.

For the mid cabin guys here is where I found the fittings underneath.(Fwd to AFt)

1. FWD - Under bow pulpit
2. Port and Starboard, behind speakers in V-Berth
3. Port and Stbd. Under headliner in V-Berth storgae area
4. Port - Under headliner in V-Berth storgae area, stbd, under headliner in V-Berth closet
5. Port Behind fwd speaker over dinette, Stbd, behind back wall of medicine cabinet
6. Port - Behind aft speaker over dinette, Stbd, behind back wall of cabinet over sink
7. Port - Inside big locker coming down stairs, under a plastic "bubble", Stbd, access via big locker in mid cabin, look up and forward, almost to galley wall.
8. Port and Starboard - Behind speakers in cockpit.

Kudos to trojan for making these accessible.

RWS · Post by **RWS** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:46 pm

Hi Scott,

Glad you had good results.

Sometimes we find that these Internationals boats are pretty darn amazing.

You might also consider rebedding the fwd & center cleats while you are at it.

Nice sized backing plates there.

Glad it worked out for you.

RWS

Trojan Boat Forum

Rebedding Rail, 10 meter midcabin

Rebedding Rail, 10 meter midcabin

on my to do list as well, steps should be done tonight