F26 Air Conditioner Location

vabeach1234 · Post by **vabeach1234** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:02 pm

I just scored a new Marine Air Conditioner on Ebay. So I'll be doing away with the "Poor Mans Boat Air Conditioner" that I have through the extra cabin door.

Poor mans air conditioner (see link)
http://s853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96 ... nditioner/

I was wondering if some F26 owners would chime in here and tell me where they have their air conditioners located. I'm thinking of building a wood box in the bildge to replace the 2 drawers just to port at the bottom of the cabin way steps. Of course this box would be sealed from the bildge. The drawer opening would serve as the return and then run the supply duct through the port most locker up to the shelf and then use a wedge type supply grill to direct the air into the cabin.

I would loose the 2 drawers but the hanging locker and the other port locker just don't seem like good locations due to the difficulty of the return location.

Thanks.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:47 pm

Hi Ken,

I did exactly that to install the Cruisair unit in my F-26. I had to remove 2 drawres which is where I installed the air intake. I built some wood ducting under the seat which is where I installed the blow thru evaporator which blows out under the dinnett. The compressor is also installed under this seat and the pump and strainer are both installed on the port side of the engine in the engine compartment. If you look at the earlier posting entitled "I'am Moving" you'll see pictures of what I'm talking about. If you need more detailed pictures let me know.

Rodman · Post by **Rodman** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:30 pm

Paul wrote:Hi Ken,

I did exactly that to install the Cruisair unit in my F-26. I had to remove 2 drawrs which is where I installed the air intake. I built some wood ducting under the seat which is where I installed the blow thru evaporator which blows out under the dinnet. The compressor is also installed under this seat and the pump and strained are both installed on the port side of the engine in the engine compartment. If you look at the earlyer posting entitled "I'm Moving" you'll see pictures of what I'm talking about. If you need more detailed pictures let me know.

Post some photos if you can.

vabeach1234 · Post by **vabeach1234** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:51 am

Thanks for the reply Paul. Nice setup. You sure make the rest of us look bad with your boat. It gives me hope though. It looks like I'm headed in the right direction if I was thinking about putting the AC in the same place you did.

Based on what you wrote in the above reply and the pictures in the "I'm Moving" post, your return is where the drawer opening was and I can see the supply in one of your pictures at the adjacent vertical wall at the foot area of the the dinette. Have you had any problem with air distrubution with the supply and return being at the same level? In my neck of the woods (Southeast Virginia), I'm looking for relief from the heat so I'm thinking of ducting the supply up through the locker to the shelf above the locker, that way I have the falling affect of the cold air.

One more thing. Where did you mount the thermostat?

One nice thing is that I got rid of my 2 burner electric cook top and that had it's own 20 amp circuit. Now that will be for the AC/Heat. I think that will be the extent of easy fixes for this project. I plan on installing the unit and get everything set, then haul the boat for my mid-year zinc replacement/maintenance, and install the thru-hull then. It will be a while before this project is done.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:16 pm

Hi Ken,

Yes there is an air distribution problem when using the A/C. The return draws air from the walkway and then it gets blown back out at 90Â° under the dinette table towards the front of the boat. With both vents being on the same plane, the air tends to short circuit. To solve this problem I also run a little fan under the table to direct the air into the v-berth. Doing this keeps the whole interior at the same temperature. Not doing this results in a sweaty forhead and frozen ankles.

Both vents however are in the perfect location for running the heat with no extra fan required.

Do you have an evaperator with a fan on it or does it have a blower? If it has a fan on it, it is recomended that it blows directly into the cabin area. If it has a blower then you can duct it to where ever you want in the cabin. The higher the discharge, the better the cooling ability. Myself, I use the heat almost as much as I use th A/C so the lower location works out OK.

As for the thermostat, I have the 3 knob set up and it's installed next to the return. The thermocouple for the thermostat is installed directly behind the return to monitor the air temp returning to the evaporator.

Keep us posted on how your installation works out. My guess is that Rodman will be watching you closely and his boat will also have air soon after. I'm hoping to get out to the boat this weekend and I'll take some more detailed pictures then.

Hope this helps

vabeach1234 · Post by **vabeach1234** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:54 pm

Paul,
That's some good info. I'll take all that into consideration during my install. The unit I have does have reverse cycle heat and it does have a blower on the back side of the exchanger so I can duct the supply to where ever. Based on what you said about the short cycling and the cold ankles, I'm gonna try to get the supply as high as possible. I'll take pictures of my progress when I get rolling on this project. Rodman and I pretty much have identical boats except for the engines so I'm sure this install will help him.

Right now, I still have to finish up my bathroom remodel at the house and then redo the galley on the boat before I begin on the air conditioner. I plan on lowering the galley counter down about an 1" or 2 so I can fit a microwave under the window on the starboard side of the boat. I orignally had the microwave on the shelf above the lockers on the port side against the main bulkhead and that just ate up too much room.

Thanks again.

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:37 pm

Slightly different config, but on my F32 the A/C is under one of the dinette seats (installed by previous owner). Unfortunately a hanging locker is mostly taken up with the way the ducting was run. I will try to take a couple of pics this weekend and post them just in case it gives you any ideas.

vabeach1234 · Post by **vabeach1234** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:40 pm

Thanks Capt. Maniac,

Any pics would help.

I am a little concerned about loosing some space in one of the lockers but it isn't that critcal. I keep all my PFD's in there but I can find another spot for those (bildge or anchor locker). I was gonna try and run the duct vertical in the corner of the locker and possibly box around it with some boards to protect it from the stuff that I will store in the remaining area of the locker. Also at the base of the locker where I have to do a 90 degree turn in the duct (from horizontal to vertical) I can put in a false floor. A lot of work. I can picture it in my head but I'm sure the finished product will look a lot different.

I look forward to seeing what kind of set up you have.

Thanks.

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:48 pm

OK.... Here are the AC installation pics I promised. Let me know if you have any questions and I will do my best to answer them (installation was done by a prior owner). Pics are as follows :

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1 - AC (Cruisair StowAway 12,000 BTU model) is installed under forward dinette seat. Thru-hull and water pump to feed it (and strainer) are back in the engine compartment and hose is run forward. Drawers have been removed, and drawer fronts are just screwed in place so everything looks 'normal' when the seat is in place. The white hose you see (with blue stripe) attaches to a thru-hull about 12" above the waterline for the water outlet. Oh yeah - it is also on its own 15A breaker. In A/C mode I am normally okay, but if I try to use 'heat' mode I often trip the breaker.
2 - Air intake through louvers under the dinette.
3 - Here you see the output of the AC (wrapped in pink insulation) ducted forward through the bulkhead, into the hanging locker.
4 - Up above on this bulkhead, aft side, are the controls and a vent. The vent is ducted, and blows air aft into the Dinette area.
5 - Forward side of the hanging locker, you see two more vents - one on the top of the shelf (ducted, blowing air up and aft), and one hear the hull side (not ducted - letting 'ambient' cold air out of the hanging locker and helping vent it, forward to the v-berth).
6 - Ducting in the hanging locker ... you can see the 'T' near the floor. This is what the duct wrapped in the pink insulation in the AC pic flows into. Two hoses off of this box both run upwards. Can't really see it very well, but there is a sheet of 1.5" styrofoam insulation between the hoses and hull side. Even with that, when I have the A/C running you can see a clear rectangle of condensation on the outside of the hull exactly where the hanging locker is.... so its cold enough in there to radiate outside... These hoses really annoy me - we basically lose half the space in the hanging locker because of them.
7 - One of the hoses runs upwards and then out from the hull side to feed the vent that you saw on the top of the shelf in pic #5. The box you see to the right is the back of the A/C controls being boxed in. Highlighting one of my annoyances with the loss of space due to the ducting - the pink thing behind the hose is the rod for hanging stuff on.. So we get about 3 or 4 hangers in here tops (2 of them for our inflatable life jackets, the other two for infrequently used rain gear).
8 - Another shot of the mishmash of hoses, in this one you can see the hose that disappears in the background - this feeds the vent that blows into the dinette (shown in pic #4).

What you don't see in this setup is the temperature probe - it is fastened down on the starboard side shelf in the v-berth. The wiring for it runs from the A/C, through the hole in the bulkhead into the hanging locker, up the back of the locker, then out through a small hole onto the shelf.

This works great for the lower cabin area, but my biggest regrets with this installation are the loss of storage space, and that it doesn't work too well for the upper salon area. In the heat of summer, and with all the windows on the F32, on a really nice sunny 90+ degree (with humidity) day We can get the lower cabin down to 68-70 degrees but the salon still hovers 80+. I have tried to find a nice way to run a duct to the salon area but haven't had any workable ideas yet (seeing how much condensation I get outside the hull when it runs, don't really want to run a duct near my electrical panel for fear of corrosion issues; other paths won't work with anything more than a 2" duct, which I don't think is big enough).

I have thought of relocating the A/C, but it is not ignition protected, and this really limits where I could move it.

Anyways... hope this helps in some way.

prowlersfish · Post by **prowlersfish** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:57 pm

My F36 is only slighy large in sides and I have 2 1200 BTU units and on hot sunny days they both work very hard to keep it cool as the salon has lots of glass , a front window cover helps a lot .

A single 6000 btu unit did a good job on my F30

vabeach1234 · Post by **vabeach1234** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am

Capt. Maniac,
Thanks for the detailed photos. Helps out a lot.

I have an idea about gaining some (not much) of the space back in your locker. Is it possible to make a 90 degree turn up with just one duct where the duct comes through the bulk head (opposite the pink insulation) and then install the duct 'T' at the top of the locker and then run to the vents. This way you only have one duct running vertically in the locker (more space). You might gain some air velocity with less amount of duct length also. Also, it's unclear if there is a tight bend in the duct coming right off the blower. You might be able to find a 90 degree flanged piece to attach to the blower so you don't get so much air turbulance right out of the unit. Just something to kick around.

Thanks a gain for the photos and the decriptions. The unit I'll be installing is only a 5000 btu unit so it might be struggling on some hot days, so I'm gonna try and be right on with my duct work in order to get all that I can out of the unit.

Thanks again. I'll make sure to post progress photos when this project gets rolling.

Prowlersfish,
My buddy has a 34 mainship with a 16,000 btu AC. With all that glass around the cabin, he's lucky if he can keep it below 85 degrees. I've heard of someone in our marina installing little sprayers that spray fresh water on the exterior of the boat to help keep the boat cool during the really hot days, but they are liveaboards. To me that's just asking for water leaks.

captainmaniac · Post by **captainmaniac** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:37 pm

Glad the pics help. Re the idea of rerouting the ducting - might help a bit, but I would really rather find a way to move the unit and reclaim not only the locker, but the drawer space as well. Will keep the idea in my back pocket though...

ready123 · Post by **ready123** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:41 pm

I have seen an A/C installation on an F32 utilizing the space behind the aft drawers of the dinette seats and under the lower helm console forward of the engine bulkhead.
Can you do that with yours?
The duct for the V berth ran under the floor of the dinette and under the starboard locker, below V berth into anchor locker and the outlet was then put in the anchor locker wall facing into the V berth. I believe it ran against the first stringer from the center of hull...